Nostr notes by julian

I also think that backfill will have a side effect of connecting ...

2025-09-07T03:55:54+02:00

In reply to nevent1q…c0sr
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I also think that backfill will have a side effect of connecting the threadiverse and the rest of the fediverse.

Exposing context collections will mean consumers will be able to see both *verses. Once Mastodon starts consuming them I predict you will start seeing much more engagement from the microblogs.

The same would apply if Piefed or Lemmy begin consuming them as well.

That is an angle I had not even considered until now!

That's a really good question, I am not actually aware of any ...

2025-08-27T06:29:29+02:00

In reply to nevent1q…feg0
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That's a really good question, I am not actually aware of any list of software implementing the ActivityPub API.

[silverpill@mitra.social](https://community.nodebb.org/user/silverpill%40mitra.social) and [steve@social.technoetic.com](https://community.nodebb.org/user/steve%40social.technoetic.com) may have some leads.

Nostr event nevent1qqs8fu0ymvymm2pktzrxjmed7zukhwnp0wf4e7xl90y8j6vqwlqjhfqzyrsznu20wch5c5dlmw7pludj5rh4y3rnyxf2q9xta6jhhp6ccdkzx2mcmzh

2025-07-03T05:52:41+02:00

In reply to nevent1q…0ean
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[silverpill@mitra.social](https://community.nodebb.org/user/silverpill%40mitra.social) said in [Against fragmentation: unifying dev discussions with forum federation](https://community.nodebb.org/post/https%3A%2F%2Fmitra.social%2Fobjects%2F0197cdaa-42ab-f19c-48aa-cf8ce18973e5):
> I wonder what they meant by this. There are lots of projects that support long form content.

I think what [johnonolan@mastodon.xyz](https://community.nodebb.org/user/johnonolan%40mastodon.xyz) was trying to say was that given the relative size of the ActivityPub developer community, it's a little (or a lot) surprising that our developer discussions are as fractured as they are.

That's probably why I push so hard for discussions about fedi to take place **on** fedi.

I do get the appeal of smaller back channels, but they shouldn't be where the main business is conducted if possible...

it's possible they have a huge number of inactive accounts if ...

2025-05-03T16:56:09+02:00

In reply to nevent1q…n4zk
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it's possible they have a huge number of inactive accounts if registration is open. That community specifically has been around for quite awhile.

What I want to know is how most of the entries on there are found?! The majority of them don't have federation turned on...

Thanks @npub1d2v…0l89! I haven't really had time to take a ...

2025-03-26T19:46:52+01:00

In reply to nevent1q…t7hd
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Thanks John O'Nolan (npub1d2v…0l89)! I haven't really had time to take a closer look yet, since I've been so focused on cranking out the remote categories stuff, but I'm excited to give this a spin once I update this.

What kind of special handling are you looking for for this, that blog posts and forum topics send out `as:Article`?

@npub1psz…d0w0 recently made a statement that got me thinking ...

2025-03-10T15:01:12+01:00

hamish campbell (npub1psz…d0w0) recently made a statement that got me thinking about our place in the open social web, and the direction it's going.

He says to Sean Tilley (npub1zj7…lc9y) and Evan Prodromou (npub1764…nuj0) re: SXSW

> #FediverseHouse this feels like an irrelevant echo chamber, I really miss the grassroots #DIY that built this space in the first place. This #maistreaming is too much noise vs signal... currently the grassroots #DIY space is a hollow shell

_(two posts combined)_

That immediately got me on edge as someone new to ActivityPub in 2024. Does this mean I'm "mainstream", and somehow "bad"?

Mainstream adoption is **good** and a step in the right direction. I personally think ActivityPub isn't ready for general mainstream consumption, but we as a group are rapidly closing the gap and I'd much rather continue building momentum instead of waiting for the opportune moment.

Here's the hot take that I was going to originally write, but thought came off as too combative:

> It sounds like you feel like ActivityPub development only counts when you're toiling away in obscurity.

As someone who's hacking away on a platform that hasn't been "mainstream" for over a decade (forum/BBS software), I bristle at the notion that what I do doesn't count as grassroots or DIY. You don't have to be the perpetual underdog to do good in the world.

I might be wrong, but it sounds like Hamish feels like big players are coming in and taking the ball away... that big players' clout and presence takes away from the attention that smaller DIY projects receive.

Maybe... but if the fediverse is 100x larger with a big player, and they take 99% of the eyeballs, have they really taken anything away from you?

A solution is only needed if the resource id is different from ...

2025-03-04T19:01:16+01:00

In reply to nevent1q…r9su
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A solution is only needed if the resource id is different from the URL (which in Ghost's case, is true).

You don't _have_ to use a redirect. If your software is capable of doing it, you can serve the ActivityPub object directly from that route's controller; that's what NodeBB does.

Wanted to start a convo with @npub1d2v…0l89 from Ghost and ...

2025-03-03T16:54:34+01:00

Wanted to start a convo with John O'Nolan (npub1d2v…0l89) from Ghost and Angus McLeod (npub1tpd…pa2l) from Discourse about AP resource discovery.

A common use case from fediverse users is to be linked out to a site, and attempt to "bring it in" to their local instance/app of choice. This is done by taking the browser URL and pasting it into their site/app's search bar, or equivalent.

For example:

* Ghost: https://activitypub.ghost.org/warp-factor-5-mr-sulu/
* Discourse: any forum topic

For context, last night I discovered that Ghost's latest blog post didn't make it into NodeBB, due to a bug on my end. I attempted to resolve it via URL but there was no AP resource at that URL. I ended up having to query the instance actor (which I _happened to already know_), and looking at the outbox.

To my knowledge there is **no way** to find a Discourse post or topic's AP resource ID without having a local Discourse account.

Would it be possible for you to send back an `HTTP 301 Moved Permanently` (or similar) if the `Accepts` header contains one of the AP-related types?

N.B. This probably has some overlap with Evan Prodromou (npub1764…nuj0)'s [HTTP Discovery Task Force](https://swicg.github.io/activitypub-html-discovery/#url-as-input), a 308 is recommended there.

stahp.

2025-02-26T20:03:59+01:00

In reply to nevent1q…5j5r
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stahp.

Yes, of course Peertube sends hashtags without the `#`, why would ...

2025-02-26T19:27:43+01:00

Yes, of course Peertube sends hashtags without the `#`, why would I expect otherwise? :laughing:

![8d97461a-d0ca-4699-8c72-2859c1f3e14b-image.png]( )

You can do the same on NodeBB as well :smile:

2025-02-20T22:44:31+01:00

In reply to nevent1q…fkw4
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You can do the same on NodeBB as well :smile:

that's true for Mastodon, but not for other servers with more ...

2025-02-17T19:01:50+01:00

In reply to nevent1q…2x88
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that's true for Mastodon, but not for other servers with more of a community focused aspect, like NodeBB.

For those who were unable to attend this past weekend's ...

2025-02-04T03:15:10+01:00

For those who were unable to attend this past weekend's Social Web After Hours event held at HackerSpace Brussels (Hackerspace Brussels (HSBXL) (npub156e…e36v)), I've uploaded a re-recording of my presentation, which you can check out here! Sadly, there was no live recording of the rather lively session, so you'll just have to take my word for it :smile_cat:

https://spectra.video/w/xwCSYfZh1mJY64zJ9GngbE

If you're looking for just the slides, you can get them here as well :point_down:

* [Slides (PDF warning)](https://community.nodebb.org/assets/uploads/files/1738635204524-the-fediverse-is-quiet-let-x27-s-fix-that.pdf)

Thank you Sean Tilley (npub1zj7…lc9y) for the PeerTube instance!
https://community.nodebb.org/assets/uploads/files/1738635204524-the-fediverse-is-quiet-let-x27-s-fix-that.pdf

fediscovery

2025-02-04T02:46:08+01:00

In reply to nevent1q…89pe
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fediscovery

given how much real-time collaboration happened at FOSDEM for the ...

2025-02-03T10:17:44+01:00

In reply to nevent1q…67c8
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given how much real-time collaboration happened at FOSDEM for the Social Web, I am really really happy I was able to attend.

Thank you thank you Evan Prodromou (npub1764…nuj0) for inviting me to speak.

Lastly, there are so many others in the long-form text space who ...

2025-02-03T00:20:34+01:00

In reply to nevent1q…fkyu
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Lastly, there are so many others in the long-form text space who were not at FOSDEM, but are open and willing to work together!

Rimu (npub1vwf…95aa) (PieFed), Scott M. Stolz (npub1nfe…l5yt) (Hubzilla), Mike MacGirvin (whose handle I forget at the moment) and so many more.

Just because you weren't here does not mean you were forgotten. Your software was mentioned and discussed too!

let's all just give up and keep pressing this button ...

2025-02-03T00:17:05+01:00

In reply to nevent1q…37yl
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let's all just give up and keep pressing this button

![a470f63e-a377-4dc5-bed2-69cd5824fd11-image.png]( )

I should also mention that we had great conversations with the ...

2025-02-02T23:34:04+01:00

In reply to nevent1q…e02g
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I should also mention that we had great conversations with the Mastodon team (hi Renaud Chaput (npub1zu5…pytj) and David Roetzel (npub1jcp…927t)!), and their commitments to working towards better support for long-form text is evident.

Good vibes all around.

Among the fediverse there are microblogs (your Mastodons, ...

2025-02-02T23:31:00+01:00

Among the fediverse there are microblogs (your Mastodons, Misskeys(+forks), etc.

Then there are the long form peeps. We managed to all find each other at FOSDEM 2025.

Pictured is Matt Baer (npub1036…dl9x) (Write freely), Matthias Pfefferle (npub1jwr…7v3w) (WordPress), and yours truly (NodeBB). We also had some good conversations with John O'Nolan (npub1d2v…0l89) (Ghost), but I wasn't quick enough with my camera 😩

Let's move the state of long-form text on the open social web, forward!

![1000007220.jpg]( )

Michiel Leenars: "A single Mastodon or GoToSocial instance ...

2025-02-02T09:40:24+01:00

Michiel Leenars: "A single Mastodon or GoToSocial instance will not beat X... but a hundred-thousand will"

[@ec_ngi@ec.social-network.europa.eu](https://community.nodebb.org/user/ec_ngi%40ec.social-network.europa.eu)

The venerable @npub1d2v…0l89 at FOSDEM!!! "If you don't ...

2025-02-01T18:35:53+01:00

The venerable John O'Nolan (npub1d2v…0l89) at FOSDEM!!!

"If you don't like AI generated pictures of ActivtyPugs, the java dev room moved to UA 118" 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

![1000007207.jpg]( )

"We don't want to build software useful only to ...

2025-02-01T17:10:00+01:00

"We don't want to build software useful only to Mastodon"

![1000007205.jpg]( )

blame alarmists from the fediverse for that opt-in.

2025-01-29T20:01:46+01:00

In reply to nevent1q…ypyh
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blame alarmists from the fediverse for that opt-in.

NodeBB will be making an appearance at this year's FOSDEM! ...

2025-01-28T19:57:25+01:00

NodeBB will be making an appearance at this year's FOSDEM!

I'll likely be present at the Social Web dev room during FOSDEM itself, and will be presenting a talk at the [Social Web After Hours event](https://socialwebfoundation.org/2025/01/04/social-web-after-hours-at-fosdem-2025/) alongside Darius Kazemi (npub1fd2…f2f9), Matthias Pfefferle (npub1jwr…7v3w), and Johannes Ernst (npub1dvx…gems) at **Hackerspace Brussels (HSBXL)**, on Sunday evening.

I'll be talking up the SWICG Forum and Threaded Discussions Task Force, and what we're working on to solve one of fedi's hard problems: combating the notion that "the fediverse is quiet". Come and listen!

Thank you to the great folks at NGI Zero open source funding (npub1dk0…k0wd), who have kindly funded my way there this year.

I'm not entirely sold on the replies collection traversal ...

2025-01-25T19:59:21+01:00

In reply to nevent1q…ypxs
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I'm not entirely sold on the replies collection traversal logic as penned by jonny (nonvenomous) (npub1ljm…w8tm)

It doubles down on the premise that individual notes are isolated entities whose connection to other notes is dictated solely by `inReplyTo` and `replies`.

7888 introduces the concept of a conversational context, which is maintained by the original conversation starter. When you have an ad-hoc source like this, you can just ask the context owner to supply the entire set of responses in one single call (or perhaps a few more if paginated.) No `replies` traversal needed.

Also the pricing page ranges from $2-6/mo. If that's ...

2025-01-25T04:55:19+01:00

In reply to nevent1q…wml9
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Also the pricing page ranges from **$2-6/mo**. If that's "corporate leeching" to you, I don't even know what to say.

cc BeAware :fediverse: (npub1sfq…cxv5)

Frequency is not a "corporate leech", are you kidding me. ...

2025-01-25T04:52:20+01:00

In reply to nevent1q…mpg5
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Frequency is not a "corporate leech", are you kidding me.

It's literally a project run by one individual, Jesse Karmani (npub1zq8…k7nh), who wanted to fork Mastodon to increase privacy.

There's a Decentered podcast episode about it, I would recommend you listen to it before you make accusations like this.

https://wedistribute.org/podcast/frequency-jesse-karmani/

yes and no. I'm working on a solution for this. NodeBB for ...

2025-01-25T00:42:37+01:00

In reply to nevent1q…keqs
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yes and no. I'm working on a solution for this.

NodeBB for example will automatically do this (providing the other end supports it). When posts are retrieved from NodeBB to NodeBB the entire topic is visible.

Today's the day! :tada: After nearly a full year in ...

2025-01-20T20:29:55+01:00

Today's the day! :tada:

After nearly a full year in development, NodeBB v4.0.0 has landed, bringing federation between NodeBB instances (and a connection to the wider fediverse of social media) to forum software.

## Fedi-what?

[Fediverse! Here's a TechCrunch primer about it](https://techcrunch.com/2024/06/25/welcome-to-the-fediverse-your-guide-to-mastodon-threads-bluesky-and-more/), but at the end of the day, *it doesn't really matter*. All you need to know is that NodeBB plugs in to a wider social network so that **you** don't have to cultivate an audience, _they're already there_.

## The genesis

It was back in mid-2023 when I had the initial idea of interconnecting NodeBB forums. Back then, I had far smaller ambitions... I wanted a singular NodeBB to be able to communicate with other forums running NodeBB. To do that, we'd need to build out a centralized service to act as a bridge between instances, and corresponding slim clients on individual installs to consume the relayed data. At the time, concept like decentralization were not even part of my thought process.

It was during this period when I was doing my research that I stumbled on Mastodon, and later, ActivityPub, the protocol that powers it all. Since then, it's been one wild ride getting NodeBB to speak the same language.

## Funding

Soon after dipping my toes into all that Mastodon had to offer, I discovered the NLNet Foundation, and their corresponding fund — **NGI Zero Core**. With the promise of funding, NodeBB could fully commit to implementing the protocol in short order, instead of piece by piece over time. We sent in an application and were delighted to be approved for the August 2023 call.

Their funding was instrumental in providing the financial stability to experiment with ActivityPub and to participate in developer circles, such as the SWICG, FediForum, and much more.

The fund continues to operate, [perhaps you could benefit](https://nlnet.nl/commonsfund/), or [donate to the cause](https://nlnet.nl/donating/). It has certainly made a difference to NodeBB.

## Federate, or not, it's your choice

NodeBB v4 comes shipped with the capability to interact with other NodeBB forums and any other ActivityPub-speaking software, right out of the box. We opted to make this a core feature instead of a plugin, since there were many changes made to core to support even the concept of accepting content from outside itself.

To that end, any users upgrading from v3.x will automatically have federation disabled, in order to reduce surprise. Any new forums **will federate automatically**.

You can turn federation on and off (and adjust some other fun toggles) directly from `ACP > Settings > Federation (ActivityPub)`.

Even after turning federation on, how you _use_ it shapes how well connected you will be. There is no centralized authority artificially boosting your content, so the name of the game is establishing two-way follow relationships to other sites.

## The ActivityPub Equalizer

We're not alone in this journey to interoperate with other decentralized services. We're not even the only forum software to attempt to do so.

* Discourse has a working plugin.
* Ghost is building out in the open.

I specifically highlight these two because they both started in the early 2010s, same as NodeBB. It's always been a bit of an informal competition between us, and we always checked in on what the others were doing (growth-wise, pricing-wise, etc.) Truth be told, I don't think the ghost team ever really noticed NodeBB, but I digress...

The funny thing about ActivityPub is that at the end of the day, the overarching goal of seamless communication breaks down any barriers between competing organizations.

NodeBB and Discourse have been vying for the exact same market share (forums, community-building, self-started or enterprise) for over 10 years, and it was only after ActivityPub came around that the dev teams even started talking to one another.

Funny how that works.

## So how does it all work?

[Our documentation portal](https://docs.nodebb.org/activitypub/) has been updated with the latest information about the ActivityPub functionality in v4.

If you have any questions about how it works or how to configure some aspect of it, please don't hesitate to reach out in the [corresponding v4 support thread](https://community.nodebb.org/topic/18544/v4.0.0-upgrade-support).

If you run NodeBB, the quickest way to see this in action is to upgrade to v4, and then paste [this post's URL](https://community.nodebb.org/post/102756) into your search bar. It should show up automatically, and you should be able to read and reply to it, directly from your own forum. Neat!

I'll be there! I'm presenting a talk at the after hours ...

2025-01-17T13:48:03+01:00

In reply to nevent1q…efu3
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I'll be there! I'm presenting a talk at the after hours Social Web event at HSBXL.

Here is a new topic for testing @npub1zvh…wqrp @npub1syd…57g8 ...

2024-12-18T04:06:45+01:00

Here is a new topic for testing

wakest (npub1zvh…wqrp) Julian (NodeBB) (npub1syd…57g8) Jon P (npub13ql…hl2h)

Perhaps it's because the old topic was already existing? Fingers crossed it makes it over the bridge.

A like from bsky made it over here.

yeah I wasn't able to get anything across either, but I ...

2024-12-17T04:13:04+01:00

In reply to nevent1q…0t5s
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yeah I wasn't able to get anything across either, but I wasn't sure whether I needed to have my bsky account follow the bridge as well. So I did that but didn't receive a follow back.

Will try again tomorrow I guess!

ActivityPub introduced to NodeBB the concept of ...

2024-12-16T22:10:00+01:00

ActivityPub introduced to NodeBB the concept of sharing/announcing/boosting, and we enthusiastically supported this as a method of content discovery.

While we were processing these activities (and publishing our own), we weren't actively tracking them internally. That has changed in the latest commits (soon to be RC5); shared content from both local and remote users are tracked internally and can be viewed in the user profile.

For example, [here is c/comicstrips from lemmy.world](https://community.nodebb.org/user/comicstrips@lemmy.world/shares). As it is a Lemmy **community**, it only shares content, and does not produce any of its own.

Here is a quick recap of how sharing is handled in NodeBB:

* When remote users boost/repost content, NodeBB interprets this as a share.
* When local NodeBB admins move topics out of "uncategorized" and into a category, it is interpreted as a share and this activity is federated out to the admin's followers.

At this time unprivileged users cannot share content.

did that message ever show up?

2024-12-16T20:38:30+01:00

In reply to nevent1q…ypzj
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did that message ever show up?

thanks! Seems like I'm already able to see those accounts and ...

2024-12-13T21:17:00+01:00

In reply to nevent1q…vjtq
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thanks! Seems like I'm already able to see those accounts and they already have posts. Good sign.

wakest (npub1zvh…wqrp) did you get this message from bsky?

Hi @jdp23@blahaj.zone, can you try again here on the NodeBB ...

2024-12-13T19:56:23+01:00

In reply to nevent1q…vkfv
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Hi @jdp23@blahaj.zone, can you try again here on the NodeBB community? I made a small change that should allow you to properly find the bridgefed user to start the bridge.

I don't know any bridges bsky accounts to test, could you let me know one?

don't forget NodeBB v4 RC1! 😁 ...

2024-12-06T21:58:55+01:00

In reply to nevent1q…2acv
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don't forget NodeBB v4 RC1! 😁

https://community.nodebb.org/post/101884

[Agenda preparation for the November ForumWG meeting can be found ...

2024-11-04T18:54:19+01:00

[Agenda preparation for the November ForumWG meeting can be found at this public link](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SuViZJHB8ed4k8Elsr8XCNsfMeGmO_4HfqLuI0RyuYY/edit?usp=sharing) (anyone can make comments for review.)

Monthly meetings are held on the first Thursday of each month, at 1700 to 1800 UTC. You can find them listed in the [SocialCG Calendar](https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/socialcg/calendar/). The next meeting will be held on 7 November 2024.

We will be continuing onwards with:

* discussions regarding context resolution. Multiple FEPs touch on the subject and there is an opportunity for potential convergence towards a single (or pair) of FEPs that share enough commonalities to allow for interoperability.
* updates by WG members re: non-`as:Note` support in Mastodon and the Social CG report draft
* whether a resolvable context collection containing plain objects should also contain activities (like an outbox)

As always — time permitting — if you'd like to speak or inquire about a certain topic, comment in the agenda or reply here, the floor is open!

tl;dr — you can now send me DMs. I blatently and ...

2024-10-10T03:54:46+02:00

**tl;dr** — you can now send me DMs. I blatently and unforgivingly abused the NodeBB chat system to make this work.

----

Ever since I started this project at the start of 2024, I knew that posts with limited visibility were going to be a sore spot. ActivityPub has the concept of "addressing", with the following valid entries:

* An actor (`as:Person` or similar) uri
* A followers collection (?!?!?!)
* The public collection

However, posts and topics in NodeBB have their privileges and access scoped to _the category_, which meant that while it is able to restrict visibility/posting/etc. to specific users, the system was not flexible enough to handle _individual posts_ with different user visibilities.

Given that limitation, up until this week, if your object did not contain the public collection `https://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams#Public`, it was automatically and unceremoniously dropped because there was no way NodeBB could display it to the targeted user without leaking it to other users.

I had [gone through a couple iterations to try to figure out a way to make this work](https://github.com/NodeBB/NodeBB/issues/12448), but none stuck (see the follow-up technical post for more details), and I had just about relegated it to the "think on this for awhile" pile until a recent post by @scott@authorship.studio got me thinking outside of the box:

> and your forums, **direct messages**, and inbox can have different feature sets.

Emphasis mine.

Unlike topics and posts, NodeBB's chat system is not constrained by the privilege system, and each chat room has its own collection of members, which in many ways made it a *better* fit!

I put together a proof-of-concept in a couple days, and we're test driving it now. So my apologies if in the past year you tried to DM me, and I didn't respond. I wasn't ignoring you, NodeBB just didn't know how to handle it, promise!

Missed opportunity.

2024-10-07T21:03:47+02:00

In reply to nevent1q…vvsa
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Missed opportunity.

TIL that when you send Mastodon a mentioned-only note, all HTML ...

2024-10-07T20:46:41+02:00

TIL that when you send Mastodon a mentioned-only note, all HTML tags are stripped.

Just... _whyyyyyy...._

The minutes from yesterday's *Forum and Threaded Discussions ...

2024-10-04T20:12:44+02:00

The minutes from yesterday's *Forum and Threaded Discussions Task Force* monthly meeting can be found [at this Google Docs link](https://docs.google.com/document/d/14fycmGqUh_Sf1vjr8cbRzbUolpNR6fie7Iat8UIKcNs/edit?usp=sharing)

*Apologies in advance if I misrepresented anybody or missed any crucial bits of information.*

----

Of note:

## Mastodon and its treatment of non-note items

* Darius Kazemi (Darius Kazemi (npub1fd2…f2f9)) reports that Hometown already supports improved conversion of non-note items (like `as:Article`) into statuses, and that this serves as a working proof-of-concept towards getting this merged upstream into Mastodon proper.
* We discussed briefly the Mastodon PR approval process and how it sometimes drives away contributions
* Darius emphasized the importance of showing real user support to facilitate the merging of pull requests.

## Context Collections and FEP Convergence

* Julian proposed consolidating various FEPs (7888, 400e, 171b) to publish a unified recommendation.
* Evan (Evan Prodromou (npub1764…nuj0)) objected to the use of the "context" property in FEP 7888, advocating for a new vocabulary instead.
* The discussion included differing views on the utility of the context property and its historical usage.
* Darius utilized his data observatory (TBD) data set to hopefully prove that `context` is not a properly currently seeing any usage.

## "Convenings" and Collaboration Initiatives:

* Darius, representing the Applied Social Media Lab, proposed organizing physical meetings to enhance interoperability in the fediverse.
* He will provide a blog post detailing the ActivityPub Data Observatory and related goals.

## [ActivityPub Trust & Safety Task Force](https://github.com/swicg/activitypub-trust-and-safety)

* A new task force will focus on protocol-level issues within ActivityPub, including proper content warnings and labeling.
* Meetings are tentatively scheduled for the second Tuesday of each month (starting November), with a [call for input on scheduling](https://github.com/swicg/activitypub-trust-and-safety/issues/5).

[Agenda preparation for the October ForumWG meeting can be found ...

2024-10-01T17:03:47+02:00

[Agenda preparation for the October ForumWG meeting can be found at this public link](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ryzvqz-WaRMxPZWgRMUiprJ7N9tZINe5-8B0BTioqhk/edit?usp=sharing) (anyone can make comments for review.)

Monthly meetings are held on the first Thursday of each month, at 1700 to 1800 UTC. You can find them listed in the [SocialCG Calendar](https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/socialcg/calendar/). The next meeting will be held on 3 October 2024.

We will be continuing onwards with discussions regarding context resolution. Multiple FEPs touch on the subject and there is an opportunity for potential convergence towards a single (or pair) of FEPs that share enough commonalities to allow for interoperability.

As always — time permitting — if you'd like to speak or inquire about a certain topic, comment in the agenda or reply here, the floor is open!

@npub1sfq…cxv5 Hooray, I'm finally able to mention you ...

2024-09-30T22:34:33+02:00

BeAware :fediverse: (npub1sfq…cxv5) Hooray, I'm finally able to mention you again lol.

I had to manually fix an entry in my db, and I don't quite know why it stopped working for you.

tl;dr — category actors in NodeBB now have better ...

2024-09-27T19:51:27+02:00

**tl;dr** — category actors in NodeBB now have better avatars/pictures! They're generated from the `icon`, `color`, and `bgColor` settings for each category.

Did you know that categories in NodeBB can also be followed on the social web/fediverse? Categories, as they are known here, are also actors on the fediverse, so you can find them just like any other account.

e.g. @general-discussion @support @nodebb-development @activitypub

wakest ⁂ (npub1xse…lgk3) opened [an issue back in **April**](https://github.com/NodeBB/NodeBB/issues/12507) (!!) pointing out that the avatar/picture served by NodeBB for category actors was not as good as it could be.

It's definitely possible to do something like this, although it is usually rather resource intensive. For example, when you paste a GitHub URL somewhere (e.g. Slack), it may try to unfurl the URL and display an image. [GitHub blogged about how they did this](https://github.blog/open-source/git/framework-building-open-graph-images/) using Puppeteer to generate the images.

I knew right away I didn't want to bundle what was _basically_ an entire browser runtime into NodeBB's dependencies, so I needed a more lightweight solution.

I attempted to build my own SVG string and send that through as a data-uri, but not surprisingly, it was not handled by the implementations I tested.

Some more research this week led me to Vercel's [OG Image Generation](https://vercel.com/blog/introducing-vercel-og-image-generation-fast-dynamic-social-card-images), which allows you to create images on the fly using Vercel Edge Functions. Since NodeBB is neither a Vercel app, nor do any people running NodeBB use Vercel, that ruled out this product.

However, more research into Vercel's implementation led me to Satori and resvg, a pair of programs that can generate an SVG from HTML, and a PNG from SVG.

From there, it was a fairly standard technical exercise to combine these with our font-awesome libraries in order to output our own implementation of this to generate colourful category avatars for its category actors.

For now, they are only generated on-demand when a category actor is requested, but if there are applications for the icons to be used elsewhere, then we could look into having them generated on direct file request.

Enjoy!

![0ff837a6-8f76-4c81-a81f-d4ad6d24660e-image.png](/assets/uploads/files/1727458898541-0ff837a6-8f76-4c81-a81f-d4ad6d24660e-image.png)

TIL that CloudFlare actually built and maintained [their own ...

2024-09-23T19:53:34+02:00

TIL that CloudFlare actually built and maintained [their own ActivityPub software called **Wildebeest**](https://github.com/cloudflare/wildebeest) and shuttered it at the end of Q1 2023.

That's wild.

https://blog.cloudflare.com/welcome-to-wildebeest-the-fediverse-on-cloudflare/

Did @npub19yg…wysk or @npub1t5c…ppw4 put together a draft FEP ...

2024-09-23T18:47:48+02:00

Did silverpill (npub19yg…wysk) or infinite love ⴳ (npub1t5c…ppw4) put together a draft FEP that successfully merges 7888, 400e, and Mike Macgirvin 🖥️ (npub1k90…q43y)'s conversation containers? I remember reading it last week, and wonder if it's the one true FEP that will render the others obsolete.

Last friday I [quietly tagged a commit on the `activitypub` ...

2024-09-23T18:45:24+02:00

Last friday I [quietly tagged a commit on the `activitypub` branch](https://github.com/NodeBB/NodeBB/commit/86f624f8172fb96fbd3c83683affd8814e8b5156) with `v4.0.0-beta.1`, which signals that the ActivityPub integration is now ready for beta testing.

For the most complete (yet readable) list of new functionality from the alpha, check out [the "Road to Beta" project page](https://github.com/orgs/NodeBB/projects/2).

**tl;dr** — some new features and a lot of fixes

* Editing a category now issues an `Update(Actor)`
* `replies` is now populated and responds with an OrderedCollection of direct replies ([see the post about _that_](https://community.nodebb.org/topic/18156/regarding-replies-and-inreplyto-traversal))
* Proper `sharedInbox` support
* Better indicators for content that comes from non-local (aka "remote") users
* Conversational `context` synchronization mechanic ([corresponding post for that](https://community.nodebb.org/topic/18184/the-current-state-of-context-resolution))
* Moving a topic out of the "uncategorized" category will now federate out an `Announce`

By and large most incompatibilties have been resolved, although if you do find some issues, please do let me know in the corresponding bug report thread.

I'm looking to wrap up the year with some of the more difficult projects I've put off
* [Object Integrity Proofs](https://w3id.org/fep/8b32), which will also enable [Inbox Forwarding](https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/#inbox-forwarding)
* Better handling of "Open in App" signals from third-party instances
* Post visibility support (or at least better handling so non-public messages aren'y unceremoniously dropped!)
* Ongoing integration with FEPs [400e](https://w3id.org/fep/400e) and [7888](https://w3id.org/fep/7888)

it's an oft-repeated refrain that the Mastodon team has a lot ...

2024-09-16T18:00:11+02:00

In reply to nevent1q…szjm
_________________________

it's an oft-repeated refrain that the Mastodon team has a lot of their plate. With bug fixes, existing feature pipeline, and now your funded work with fediscovery, issues important to other implementors might fall by the wayside or seem less important.

The easiest thing for us to do is to impress upon you and your colleagues the importance of this for the wider fediverse. You have Matthias Pfefferle (npub1jwr…7v3w) from WordPress, Mike McCue (npub17fe…w0a6) from FlipBoard, and Michael Foster (npub1qm3…d0q6) from NewsMast, and likely others who would be on board (洪民憙 (Hong Minhee) (npub1xz5…az9u) with Fedify/Ghost?) with switching away from `as:Note` (I can't speak for them, but probably?)

The _second_ easiest thing here would be to have a developer make a PR against the Mastodon repo. I'd love to also make this happen (funding and such permitting).

re: better handling of non-notes by Mastodon Toward the end ...

2024-09-16T17:52:06+02:00

**re: better handling of non-notes by Mastodon**

Toward the end of a day 2 FediForum session, Matthias Pfefferle (npub1jwr…7v3w), Manton Reece (npub1740…3wtz), and I sidetracked a bit and discussed once again the tendency for implementors to shift away from more suitable ActivityStreams Activities to `as:Note`.

Specifically, it was the demo/session by Sam Sethi :pc2red: ⁂ (npub1thg…zq23) re: TrueFans. Instead of federating out an `as:Listen`, they send `as:Note`, and it's a fairly safe bet that this is because the content cannot be richly represented in Mastodon. The same story played out with Mattias and the WordPress plugin, and myself with NodeBB.

Secondly, back in March/April and again in May, Renaud Chaput (npub1zu5…pytj) [mentioned that resolving this was of some interest to the Mastodon team](https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/29981#issuecomment-2110758130):

> We will work on improving the display of non-Note content in the next Mastodon version

*To be clear*, getting Mastodon to suitably process `as:Article`/`as:Listen`/`as:Offer` or any number of other activities **is not what the ForumWG wants to accomplish**. It's not up to Mastodon to adapt to the variety of content on the fediverse, but rather that its fallback handling needs to improve _just enough_ so that its baseline rendering is acceptable to more implementors and their users.

As concise and actionable as I can make it:

1. Mastodon allows a subset of HTML for `as:Note`. This subset **is good enough**, but `content` in _non-notes_ has all html stripped. Keep consistency here and allow the same subset of HTML.
1. Non-note `content` is truncated. This is no longer necessary due to the addition of the expand button. The wonderful thing is this standardization of behaviour actually _simplifies_ Mastodon code.
1. Instead of appending the object URL to the status content, promote the "Open Original Page" button out of the overflow menu. It's more than okay to defer to the original site vis-a-vis presentation and allow the user a smooth exit if desired (`target="_top"` would be okay too if you're worried!)

**That's it**.

You could even skip the third point, but even with 1 and 2 achieved this would sufficiently raise the baseline behaviour _just enough_ that I would immediately update NodeBB to send `as:Article` for new topics, and I am certain Matthias Pfefferle (npub1jwr…7v3w) would adjust his defaults as well.

----

Lastly, Renaud Chaput (npub1zu5…pytj), I'm sure I can speak for everyone at FediForum when I say that it was wonderful to see representatives from Mastodon (that of course includes Andy Piper ➡️ EMF 📞 ANDYP (npub13za…8j89) as well) in attendance. It means a lot to me personally that you were there, and sends a signal that Mastodon continues to desire broader inter-compatibility.

Thanks @npub1sfq…cxv5 Yes, @npub16pz…dnu8! @npub1d43…jl5u ...

2024-09-16T16:17:29+02:00

In reply to nevent1q…rdr2
_________________________

Thanks BeAware :fediverse: (npub1sfq…cxv5)

Yes, Abigail (npub16pz…dnu8)! NodeBB (npub1d43…jl5u) is on the fediverse and its upcoming v4 integrates ActivityPub, and can talk to other users on the fediverse!

Let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

there's no functional difference though no? I think ...

2024-09-07T04:19:00+02:00

In reply to nevent1q…dr48
_________________________

there's no functional difference though no? I think infinite love ⴳ (npub1t5c…ppw4)'s 7888 already discusses that flow and it works ok with Create...

Hmmm... so I attempted to utilise Mastodon's account move ...

2024-09-05T05:29:29+02:00

Hmmm... so I attempted to utilise Mastodon's account move functionality to send my followers over to this account.

It seems like the process started ok (Mastodon reports the account is now moving and redirecting), but it's been about 20 minutes and I don't think I've gained any new followers, heh.

Is there a delay or perhaps I did something wrong...

![Screenshot 2024-09-04 at 23-02-29 Account migration - Crag Social.png](/assets/uploads/files/1725506968273-screenshot-2024-09-04-at-23-02-29-account-migration-crag-social.png)

I had the opportunity to work with the team at ...

2024-08-16T18:19:53+02:00

I had the opportunity to work with the team at [OpenBeta](//openbeta.io) on the re-launching of their community forums. They're one of our earliest v4 testers, since they've agreed to have ActivityPub enabled!

(Okay, more realistically I dragged them into it kicking and screaming, but they did provide the opportunity for the forum relaunch, so I'm taking the opportunities as they come!)

During the prep, I discussed some of the well-trodden concept of the fediverse to my co-admin, Ben (bean (npub1sev…9n0v) and also npub19gpyrnndlq6udzsefgdf8mgy6npsxkxz9rlnzfn8ava96x74trgs0efxk2 (npub19gp…fxk2))... stuff I'm sure you've come across:

* Fragmented nature of conversations
* The idea of an instance
* Content discovery with respect to the follow-relationship model

... and wouldn't you know it, it's **really hard** to discuss these ideas, and Ben is actually fairly well-versed! He ran his own Iceshrimp instance, so all of this wasn't exactly new to him.

Part of it was that I had been steeped in the ActivityPub dev scene for almost a year, so it's hard to step back and explain to ~~mere mortals~~ ~~laymen~~ non-developers what exactly all this ActivityPub nonsense is.

All I know it gets me thinking that I need to work with Andy Piper ➡️ EMF 📞 ANDYP (npub13za…8j89) on documentation!

That new NodeBB instance, by the way, is https://community.openbeta.io :)

Super stoked that @oliphant@oliphant.social started ION, a ...

2024-08-07T16:22:46+02:00

Super stoked that @oliphant@oliphant.social started ION, a limited federation network that uses allow lists instead of deny lists.

If there's one thing that we know so far in light of these recent discussions about moderation, is that we don't know what the solution is, nor whether a one size fits all approach is even feasible.

There will always be communities who value reach above all, and there will be other communities (especially marginalized ones) to whom limited federation has great appeal.

This is a wonderful experiment, and I wish them all the best!

https://oliphant.social/@oliphant/112911444188296957
https://oliphant.social/@oliphant/112911444188296957

that's fantastic news! Good job ...

2024-08-04T22:58:26+02:00

In reply to nevent1q…0v6x
_________________________

that's fantastic news! Good job @algernon@trunk.mad-scientist.club !

Hi @renchap@oisaur.com! Discussion regarding this resurfaces from ...

2024-07-31T19:13:25+02:00

In reply to nevent1q…67ug
_________________________

Hi @renchap@oisaur.com! Discussion regarding this resurfaces from time to time, and it mostly centres around how noisy the deletion process is, as you've alluded to in your post.

I wrote up a small update regarding [how NodeBB handles deletes via ActivityPub](https://community.nodebb.org/post/99573), perhaps it may help.

End of the day ensuring that a deletion is *fully propagated* is probably futile. I personally believe that all instances should handle remote actor data like a cache, and clear it regularly. That means if account data is stale and a re-fetch results in a `Tombstone` or `410 Gone`, then the account should be scrubbed.

Just a call out for help from fedidevs re: ActivityPub. For some ...

2024-07-30T22:15:07+02:00

Just a call out for help from fedidevs re: ActivityPub. For some reason that I have yet to discern, my mentions are not reaching end users if they're on a Mastodon instance.

The annoying thing is they _used_ to work, but seem to have broken somewhat recently.

(Thanks @trwnh@mastodon.social (who ironically, will not be notified of this mention) for letting me know about the issue.)

I include each mention in the `tag` property, and it includes `type`, `href`, and `name`:

* `type` is `Mention`
* `href` is the **url** of the user (not the ID)
* `name` is the full handle without the `@` prefix

``` json
{
...
"tag": [
{
"type": "Mention",
"href": "https://crag.social/users/devnull";,
"name": "devnull@crag.social"
}
]
...
```

The post is successfully federated, and when queried, the mention is clickable and goes to the local account page for that user (as opposed to linking out to the remote page like a regular URL).

Alas, the mention does not generate a notification on the receiving end.

Does this seem familiar to anyone else?

It occurs to me that once an instance is federating, and ...

2024-07-20T17:30:28+02:00

It occurs to me that once an instance is federating, and especially if follow relationships are established, that renaming an instance (e.g. changing domain names, etc.) is not advisable.

Are there any established best practices, or am I destined to lose all of my followers?

Perhaps maybe `as:Move` for every actor, though that requires that both source and destination instances be live.

the API is best used as a server to server API, and so using it ...

2024-07-08T18:40:25+02:00

In reply to nevent1q…tda5
_________________________

the API is best used as a server to server API, and so using it as a frontend API is doable but yes, could be problematic in the way you suggest.

What I'd recommend is having a light server back-end to proxy those requests to NodeBB. The tokens should never be exposed to user facing components.

Sometimes when NodeBB attempts to retrieve a remote user, it will ...

2024-06-10T21:40:51+02:00

Sometimes when NodeBB attempts to retrieve a remote user, it will encounter the HTTP status code 410 Gone, which I take to mean that the user has been deleted from the origin server.

I mostly see it from spam accounts that were deleted, but I could potentially see that returned if users manually delete their own accounts.

The easy way forward here would be to see this and immediately delete all content I have locally for that user... all posts we have cached, the local profile, etc.

Downside is it could mean good conversations could suddenly have a hole in them when the account is deleted. We actually circumvent this in NodeBB by not allowing the user to one-click purge all of their content; an administrator is usually involved in the process.

But as always, different implementers might mean different things with 410 Gone, so I hesitate and wonder whether the simple path is the right path...

one thing I thought Mastodon did well was support custom profile ...

2024-05-29T23:50:08+02:00

In reply to nevent1q…pzau
_________________________

one thing I thought Mastodon did well was support custom profile fields per user. They just expose them in the user actor I think, suppose you could do the same?

Does anyone know if there are guidelines for the Follow/Accept ...

2024-05-24T16:24:09+02:00

Does anyone know if there are guidelines for the Follow/Accept flow outside of that prescribed in the AP protocol?

The reason why I ask is because there seems to be a little logical hole that people fall into where a Follow activity is sent, but the relationship then rests in an indeterminate state:

<li>The Follow is pending acceptance</li>
<li>The Follow was already seen and subsequently ignored</li>
<li>Something was wrong with the activity (e.g. signature failure, missing id, etc.) and it was ignored</li>

Receipt of an Accept is asynchronous, so the approach as seen in the wild is to assume a "pending" follow state. The problem is that if the flow doesn't follow that happy path (instant-accept or pending), then you don't know there is a problem.

Furthermore it seems that there are no existing recommendations regarding handling of a Follow to an Actor who believes you are already following them. Do you send back an Accept? Ignore the activity?

this is one of those things where you have to just keep working ...

2024-05-13T01:05:24+02:00

In reply to nevent1q…0w3h
_________________________

this is one of those things where you have to just keep working with the cli to get comfortable with it.

may I pose a question? What is the actual difference between a ...

2024-05-09T19:10:30+02:00

In reply to nevent1q…505k
_________________________

may I pose a question?

What is the actual difference between a site like StackOverflow (or their sister sites on the exchange) vs. a forum with a question-and-answer functionality built in?

At its core, as Ben alluded to, each question is essentially a "topic/thread", with immediate replies considered "answers", and further sub replies considered "comments".

An accepted answer needn't federate, though it can always provide that information via a separate ActivityStreams property.

My assertion isn't that StackOverflow does anything different "technically", but that their network effect and centralization, along with being the only good option to ExpertsExchange, allowed them to prosper.