{"type":"rich","version":"1.0","author_name":"npub183ws43p6p2yhlfv92evu5xg2wuj2g72qvzhqjmep8e37clf6ewnsrl5sgy","author_url":"https://nostr.ae/npub183ws43p6p2yhlfv92evu5xg2wuj2g72qvzhqjmep8e37clf6ewnsrl5sgy","provider_name":"njump","provider_url":"https://nostr.ae","html":"📅 Original date posted:2021-03-03\n📝 Original message:Dear LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (\u0026 HMRH), a.k.a. \"The Australian\",\n\nThis discussion list is serious stuff, please stop making noise.\nFungibility is a desirable property, anyway.\n\nThank you!\n\nOn Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 12:04 PM Eric Voskuil via bitcoin-dev \u003c\nbitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e wrote:\n\n\u003e \u003e consensus requires the ledger to be honest does not prove that it is\n\u003e honest.\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e Actually, that’s exactly what it does. A logical/mathematical requirement\n\u003e (necessity) is also called a proof.\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e *From:* bitcoin-dev \u003cbitcoin-dev-bounces at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e *On\n\u003e Behalf Of *LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev\n\u003e *Sent:* Tuesday, March 2, 2021 7:06 PM\n\u003e *To:* M.K. Safi via bitcoin-dev \u003cbitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e;\n\u003e Daniel Edgecumbe \u003cemail at esotericnonsense.com\u003e\n\u003e *Subject:* Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e \"Today I spent approximately $5 at a chip shop in North London in cash.\n\u003e Besides the fact that I have voluntarily chosen to share this information,\n\u003e it is absolutely no concern of yourself or any other party that this\n\u003e transaction has occured.\"\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e Good Afternoon,\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e Requiring little argument I concur, privacy allows that you do not have\n\u003e snoops and researchers following you around looking in your purse as you\n\u003e transact. For the general public, how much you carry in your purse and\n\u003e where you get it from is none of their business. However, your employer is\n\u003e required to report to the government a record of pay, or at least maintain\n\u003e that record, and the store where you made a purchase similarly to keep\n\u003e records so that taxes can be paid. From their perspective, you do not need\n\u003e to know how much they keep in their drawer. Bitcoin directly allows your\n\u003e purse to be private and for the transaction ledger to take the scrutiny\n\u003e anyone should be able to apply to prove the ledger is honest. Maintaining\n\u003e an argument that consensus requires the ledger to be honest does not prove\n\u003e that it is honest.\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e KING JAMES HRMH\n\u003e\n\u003e Great British Empire\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e Regards,\n\u003e\n\u003e The Australian\n\u003e\n\u003e LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (\u0026 HMRH)\n\u003e\n\u003e of Hougun Manor \u0026 Glencoe \u0026 British Empire\n\u003e\n\u003e MR. Damian A. James Williamson\n\u003e\n\u003e Wills\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e et al.\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e Willtech\n\u003e\n\u003e www.willtech.com.au\n\u003e\n\u003e www.go-overt.com\n\u003e\n\u003e and other projects\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e earn.com/willtech\n\u003e\n\u003e linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e m. 0487135719\n\u003e\n\u003e f. +61261470192\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard this\n\u003e email if misdelivered.\n\u003e ------------------------------\n\u003e\n\u003e *From:* bitcoin-dev \u003cbitcoin-dev-bounces at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e on\n\u003e behalf of Daniel Edgecumbe via bitcoin-dev \u003c\n\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e\n\u003e *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 March 2021 12:16 PM\n\u003e *To:* M.K. Safi via bitcoin-dev \u003cbitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e\n\u003e *Subject:* Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e Any \"transparency\" in the blockchain, beyond that required for a\n\u003e participant to determine valid ownership, can only reasonably be thought of\n\u003e as a bug.\n\u003e\n\u003e Today I spent approximately $5 at a chip shop in North London in cash.\n\u003e Besides the fact that I have voluntarily chosen to share this information,\n\u003e it is absolutely no concern of yourself or any other party that this\n\u003e transaction has occured.\n\u003e\n\u003e Bitcoin is digital cash.\n\u003e\n\u003e Daniel Edgecumbe | esotericnonsense\n\u003e email at esotericnonsense.com | https://esotericnonsense.com\n\u003e\n\u003e On Mon, Mar 1, 2021, at 22:37, Eric Voskuil via bitcoin-dev wrote:\n\u003e \u003e To be clear, is this a NACK because Taproot reduces “transparency”\n\u003e \u003e (increases privacy) on the chain (“maintaining consensus” is obviously\n\u003e \u003e an argument against any protocol change, so that’s a red herring)?\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e And is it your theory that only an “honest” (statute abiding) person\n\u003e \u003e should have privacy, and not against the state, and/or that mixers are\n\u003e \u003e sufficient privacy?\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e Personally, I’m not moved by such an argument. What do you think is the\n\u003e \u003e value proposition of Bitcoin?\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e On Mar 1, 2021, at 14:21, LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via\n\u003e bitcoin-dev \u003cbitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e wrote:\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e \n\u003e \u003e \u003e Good Afternoon,\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e I am going to take tough terms with much of your reply and do\n\u003e appreciate a courteous practice. Having previously made public disclosure\n\u003e of my affiliation with Jambler.io it seems sufficient to disclose my\n\u003e affiliation through the link in my email signature block.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e My concern is not increased privacy it is maintaining consensus values\n\u003e and the transparency of the blockchain wherein all transactions are\n\u003e published in an immutable record and that forbids the redaction of\n\u003e information by any obfuscation. A separate concern is the availability of a\n\u003e privacy suitable for cash should a Bitcoin user desire and especially\n\u003e without disturbing the existing consensus.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e The use of a Bitcoin Mixer is to enable standard equivalent privacy.\n\u003e As you may experience yourself, you do not allow people to follow you\n\u003e around looking in your purse, suppose you are dealing entirely with cash,\n\u003e and to see where and how much you fill it up, and where you spend.\n\u003e Nonetheless, for an honest person, their wallet is available for government\n\u003e audit as are their financial affairs. This is consistent with the existing\n\u003e operation of consensus.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e My full email signature block is a disclosure where I have some\n\u003e affiliation with the referenced website being that it carries at least some\n\u003e information that I have provided or that in some way I am associated\n\u003e perhaps only making use of their services. For example, I hardly make a\n\u003e profit from LinkedIn just my information is there. Also, I have made\n\u003e previous public disclosure of the affiliation. Bitcoin Mixer 2.0 is a\n\u003e partner mixer run by Jambler.io wherein I receive a service referral fee\n\u003e and am not in receipt of any part of the process transaction. The operation\n\u003e block diagram provided by Jambler.io is provided here and attached.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e \u003cip.bitcointalk.org.png\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e [ip.bitcointalk.org.png]-Operation of Jambler.io partner mixer\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fjambler.io%2Fimages%2Fscheme-1.png\u0026t=622\u0026c=gTi7r1cfh-yynw\n\u003e \u003e \u003e from this thread  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5267588\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e The installation script provided by Jambler.io that is the basis of my\n\u003e referral website is also publicly published,\n\u003e \u003e \u003e https://github.com/jambler-io/bitcoin-mixer\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e The disclosure for the partner program is available from Jambler.io\n\u003e however and is made prominently on my referral website. While it may seem\n\u003e lucrative at first I insist all partner profits are reportable on your\n\u003e personal income.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e https://jambler.io/become-partner.php\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e I am certainly better than confident that you appreciate the\n\u003e difference between an open and transparent blockchain and the ability of\n\u003e the user to not reveal details of the content of their wallet publicly.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e If further clarification is required may I suggest you pay a token and\n\u003e mix some Bitcoin wherein our discussion may then have some point of\n\u003e reference.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e KING JAMES HRMH\n\u003e \u003e \u003e Great British Empire\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e Regards,\n\u003e \u003e \u003e The Australian\n\u003e \u003e \u003e LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (\u0026 HMRH)\n\u003e \u003e \u003e of Hougun Manor \u0026 Glencoe \u0026 British Empire\n\u003e \u003e \u003e MR. Damian A. James Williamson\n\u003e \u003e \u003e Wills\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e et al.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e Willtech\n\u003e \u003e \u003e www.willtech.com.au\n\u003e \u003e \u003e www.go-overt.com\n\u003e \u003e \u003e and other projects\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e earn.com/willtech\n\u003e \u003e \u003e linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e m. 0487135719\n\u003e \u003e \u003e f. +61261470192\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard this\n\u003e email if misdelivered.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e *From:* Ariel Lorenzo-Luaces \u003carielluaces at gmail.com\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e *Sent:* Monday, 1 March 2021 12:07 AM\n\u003e \u003e \u003e *To:* LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH \u003cwilltech at live.com.au\u003e; Bitcoin\n\u003e Protocol Discussion \u003cbitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e *Subject:* Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e Hello LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e I find a striking dichotomy between your concern of increased privacy\n\u003e in bitcoin and your link to a bitcoin mixer in your signature\n\u003e www.go-overt.com\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e At first your concerns seemed genuine but after seeing your promotion\n\u003e of a bitcoin mixer I'm thinking your concerns may be more profit motivated?\n\u003e I can't tell since you failed to disclose your relationship with the mixer.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e Could you please clarify your association with the bitcoin mixer and\n\u003e moving forward could you please always do proper disclosure any time you're\n\u003e publically talking about bitcoin transaction privacy. It's only fair to do\n\u003e so as to not mislead people in an attempt to manipulate at worst and just a\n\u003e courteous practice at best.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e Cheers\n\u003e \u003e \u003e Ariel Lorenzo-Luaces\n\u003e \u003e \u003e On Feb 28, 2021, at 4:36 AM, LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via\n\u003e bitcoin-dev \u003cbitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e wrote:\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e Good Evening,\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e Thank-you for your advice   @JeremyRubin \u003c\n\u003e https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin\u003e  on the basis you advise, \"Taproot does\n\u003e not enable monero-like privacy features\", I am prepred to withdraw my NACK\n\u003e notably that the existing feeatures of Bitcoin MUST be maintained, and\n\u003e whereby the UTXO of a transaction is identifiable, the PayTo Address, and\n\u003e the amount all without any obfuscation.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e Lightning does not really provide obfuscation, it provides a result\n\u003e of a subset of transactions although the operation of the channel is\n\u003e observable to the parties.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e The reports I were reading concerning the supposed operation of\n\u003e Taproot published in a public media channel may have been speculation or\n\u003e misinformation nonetheless it is prudent to conditionally reply as you see\n\u003e that I have. It is important not to allow things to slip through the\n\u003e cracks. As you may believe may astute reviewers could make a full\n\u003e disclosure to this list it is not to be expected.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e KING JAMES HRMH\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e Great British Empire\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e Regards,\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e The Australian\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (\u0026 HMRH)\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e of Hougun Manor \u0026 Glencoe \u0026 British Empire\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e MR. Damian A. James Williamson\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e Wills\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e et al.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e Willtech\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e www.willtech.com.au\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e www.go-overt.com\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e and other projects\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e earn.com/willtech\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e m. 0487135719\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e f. +61261470192\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard\n\u003e this email if misdelivered.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e *From:* Jeremy \u003cjlrubin at mit.edu\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e *Sent:* Sunday, 28 February 2021 3:14 AM\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e *To:* LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH \u003cwilltech at live.com.au\u003e; Bitcoin\n\u003e Protocol Discussion \u003cbitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e *Subject:* Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e I have good news for you: Taproot does not enable monero-like privacy\n\u003e features any moreso than already exist in Bitcoin today. At its core,\n\u003e taproot is a way to make transactions with embedded smart contracts less\n\u003e expensive, done so in a manner that may marginally improve privacy\n\u003e dependent on user behavior (but not in the monero-like way you mention).\n\u003e For example, it makes it possible for lightning channels to look\n\u003e structurally similar to single key wallets, but it does nothing inherently\n\u003e to obfuscate the transaction graph as in monero.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e Such \"monero-like\" transaction graph obfuscation may already exist in\n\u003e Bitcoin via other techniques (coinjoin, payjoin, coinswap, lightning, etc)\n\u003e with or without Taproot, so the point is further moot.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e Do you have a source on your reporting?\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e You may wish to rescind your nack.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e --\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e @JeremyRubin \u003chttps://twitter.com/JeremyRubin\u003e  \u003c\n\u003e https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e On Sat, Feb 27, 2021 at 5:46 AM LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via\n\u003e bitcoin-dev \u003c bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e wrote:\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e Good Afternoon,\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e It has been reported that Taproot will enable some Monero like\n\u003e features including the ability to hide transactions.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e If that is the case I offer a full NACK and let me explain.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e A part of the benefit of using Bitcoin is its honesty. The full\n\u003e transaction is published on the blockchain. If that were to change so that\n\u003e transactions may be obfuscated from scrutiny then any government would have\n\u003e unlimited impetus to ban Bitcoin, and speculation has that is the reason\n\u003e India has been reported to have banned cryptocurrencies already.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e I am in support of the expanded use case of Bitcoin without harming\n\u003e the established robust fairness and equal equity offered. The core\n\u003e functionality of Bitcoin, its values, must remain unaltered.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e KING JAMES HRMH\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e Great British Empire\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e Regards,\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e The Australian\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (\u0026 HMRH)\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e of Hougun Manor \u0026 Glencoe \u0026 British Empire\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e MR. Damian A. James Williamson\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e Wills\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e et al.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e Willtech\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e www.willtech.com.au\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e www.go-overt.com\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e and other projects\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e earn.com/willtech\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e m. 0487135719\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e f. +61261470192\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard\n\u003e this email if misdelivered.\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e bitcoin-dev mailing list\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e bitcoin-dev mailing list\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e \u003e \u003e\u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev\n\u003e \u003e \u003e \u003cip.bitcointalk.org.png\u003e\n\u003e \u003e \u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e \u003e \u003e bitcoin-dev mailing list\n\u003e \u003e \u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e \u003e \u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev\n\u003e \u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e \u003e bitcoin-dev mailing list\n\u003e \u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e \u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e bitcoin-dev mailing list\n\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev\n\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e bitcoin-dev mailing list\n\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev\n\u003e\n-------------- next part --------------\nAn HTML attachment was scrubbed...\nURL: \u003chttp://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/attachments/20210303/4f0b78d2/attachment-0001.html\u003e"}