{"type":"rich","version":"1.0","author_name":"npub1ezg54d03a7unwu0fckmlugxulukrg06x7jzx4engngxfg79sfcqsn6r8pt","author_url":"https://nostr.ae/npub1ezg54d03a7unwu0fckmlugxulukrg06x7jzx4engngxfg79sfcqsn6r8pt","provider_name":"njump","provider_url":"https://nostr.ae","html":"📅 Original date posted:2012-10-01\n📝 Original message:I'm a big proponent of a testing project.\n\nI think if one could self organize that Gavin and team wanted to bless we\ncould put up some BTC as bounties or funding. We won't have our heads\naround the foundation budget for a few more weeks, but self-organization is\noften slower than budgeting. :)\n\nThis is just my opinion, but I would like very, very much to move the\ncurrent specification into unit tests so that anyone could validate their\nalternate bitcoin implementation. This is a lot of work, some of which has\nbeen done, much of which hasn't.\n\nSo, my two cents, plus an offer to bring it up at our next budgeting\nmeeting.\n\nPeter\n\n\nOn Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 7:28 AM, steve \u003csteve at mistfpga.net\u003e wrote:\n\n\u003e -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----\n\u003e Hash: SHA1\n\u003e\n\u003e On 01/10/2012 14:52, Arklan Uth Oslin wrote:\n\u003e \u003e Hi guys.\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e So, as I mentioned on the bitcointalk.org forums thread about the\n\u003e \u003e foundation, I want to get involved in the QA side of bitcoin\n\u003e \u003e development. I've done functional testing in the video game\n\u003e \u003e industry for years.\n\u003e\n\u003e Nice one, I worked in games for quite a few years. (before getting\n\u003e into finance then pentesting) there are about 6 keen testers now.\n\u003e maybe we should get a bitcoin-test mailing list, where we can discuss\n\u003e stuff without disturbing the dev team.\n\u003e\n\u003e \u003e I've read all the messages in this thread, but I'm left unclear\n\u003e \u003e how I can most effectively and quickly being helping out. Could I\n\u003e \u003e get a bit of a directional nudge?\n\u003e\n\u003e Great question... for me I feel structure is the most important thing\n\u003e to sort out first.  However we desperately need detailed testcases for\n\u003e the release of a new version. - Not too much on the change log stuff,\n\u003e more on the noddy stuff (as gavin points out below), downloading and\n\u003e making sure it works on a non dev machine, make sure the wallet isnt\n\u003e overwritten, etc.) doing games qa I imagine this would be an ideal\n\u003e place for you to start.  I have a MSDN and TechNet licence so if you\n\u003e need some reference ms virtual machines I can help you out.\n\u003e\n\u003e However we need some testcase software.  Please check out what was\n\u003e done on bettermeans for the stuff I was planning out...\n\u003e\n\u003e It details everything from recompense and testcases. bettermeans kinda\n\u003e died a death though...\n\u003e\n\u003e check out:\n\u003e\n\u003e Bitcoin over all-\n\u003e https://secure.bettermeans.com/projects/4180/wiki/Page_index\n\u003e discussion\n\u003e https://secure.bettermeans.com/projects/4180/boards\n\u003e\n\u003e 0.7\n\u003e https://secure.bettermeans.com/projects/4256/boards\n\u003e and\n\u003e https://secure.bettermeans.com/projects/4256/wiki\n\u003e\n\u003e I still have the testcases, but until we get some proper testcase\n\u003e software I am loathed to publish them in a half arsed format. (they\n\u003e worked well on bettermeans, then just vanished one day...) what\n\u003e testcase software are you familiar with?\n\u003e\n\u003e apart from that, what do you feel you can do for the project? how long\n\u003e have you been involved in bitcoin?  It may well be worth reading up\n\u003e all the dev stuff on the wiki so you can get you head around how the\n\u003e bitcoin protocol is different from the daemon and qt client. What do\n\u003e you think you can and will enjoy doing? What is your skill set in\n\u003e regard to networking, crypto and operating systems. (not that you need\n\u003e any, in any we still want and need you. :)\n\u003e\n\u003e there really is room for you to do whatever role you want, and as\n\u003e little or as much as you want - however funding is now a very tricky\n\u003e issue. so much so that I am not sure I want anything to do with\n\u003e it(distribution of coin based on work.). - I just paid for some logo\n\u003e spec work out of my own pocket (for example).  I have some testers i\n\u003e know irl who are willing to work for coin.\n\u003e\n\u003e NOTE: This response has nothing to do with the bitcoin foundation.  I\n\u003e am not a member of the foundation. I do not speak for them or even\n\u003e probably with them. I am still trying to work out how much qa the\n\u003e foundation should be responsible for, and/how it is supposed to work.\n\u003e I think the games cert process would be ideal for this.  This however\n\u003e this a discussion that probably wont have my involvement.  (personally\n\u003e I believe that the foundation should publish requirements with example\n\u003e code and testcases for each aspect of the reference client. (on\n\u003e reference platforms - I do not expect many to agree with this though)\n\u003e\n\u003e As a side note, what happens to the donations to the bitcoin testing\n\u003e project? do they get moved over to the foundation? this question is\n\u003e bigger than this email. as far as I know they are all on an address\n\u003e Gavin holds. Actually I would like to be involved in any discussions\n\u003e that would impact QA, does this mean I need to join the foundation or\n\u003e just go lone wolf?\n\u003e\n\u003e tbh I dont really understand foundations.  I always thought they were\n\u003e just a tax dodge.\n\u003e\n\u003e Sorry for the long message. :)\n\u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e Arklan\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e ---------- As long as there is light, the darkness holds no fear.\n\u003e \u003e And yet, even in the deepest black, there is life. - Arklan Uth\n\u003e \u003e Oslin\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e I want to leave this world the same way I came into it: backwards\n\u003e \u003e and on fire. - Arklan Uth Oslin\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 12:26 PM, steve \u003csteve at mistfpga.net\u003e\n\u003e \u003e wrote:\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e Hi Gavin,\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e Sorry for the delayed response, I wanted to take a couple of days\n\u003e \u003e to reflect on your email.\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e On 26/09/2012 19:09, Gavin Andresen wrote:\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e And their are other methods too.\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e The GUI::Test package for perl will allow this to be greatly\n\u003e \u003e automated. (I have done this before on the localisation of\n\u003e \u003e photoshop.)\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e this why we need detailed testscripts and plans.  so we know what\n\u003e \u003e has and hasnt been done. The more boring the task the more work\n\u003e \u003e that needs to go into testcase development.  This is the area I see\n\u003e \u003e as my greatest failing last time.  I have a large number of virtual\n\u003e \u003e machines and should have at least this work.  But we need very\n\u003e \u003e detailed testcases.  with decent testplans just downloading the\n\u003e \u003e software, syncing the block chain, syncing an existing wallet,\n\u003e \u003e rescanning the blockchain and verifying the balance would cover a\n\u003e \u003e large number of tests.  The idea behind having lots of very\n\u003e \u003e specific testcases is you get to see what tests have not been run.\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e I understand your concern, however I have taken a couple of days\n\u003e \u003e to reflect on this and I still strongly feel that in order to make\n\u003e \u003e sure that this sticks, and is still useful in 1 years time we need\n\u003e \u003e to lay proper foundations. Those foundations are not word\n\u003e \u003e documents, spreadsheets, etc.  they are selecting the right tools\n\u003e \u003e for the job.\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e We can gain so much benefit from using 3rd party software.\n\u003e \u003e (bettermeans would rock if it wasnt rotting)\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e I am sure you could do your coding work just using vi, but an sdk\n\u003e \u003e makes it much easier and allows you to work in a more productive\n\u003e \u003e manner.\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e I have had a couple of off list emails with some testers and they\n\u003e \u003e also feel that it is very important to make sure we have a sound\n\u003e \u003e foundation (mantis is so much more than just a bug reporting tool,\n\u003e \u003e I see the bug reporting functionality as secondary to the main test\n\u003e \u003e run functionality - but it doesnt have to be mantis based, we do\n\u003e \u003e need workflow and testcase software though - and proper software\n\u003e \u003e for this is much better than just a massive google doc.) however I\n\u003e \u003e am checking out some other software that has been recommended.  It\n\u003e \u003e will be very hard to change 'the process' once we have something we\n\u003e \u003e are used too (just look at the current resistance) I promise\n\u003e \u003e nothing will change for the dev team.  But test does need other\n\u003e \u003e tools, and processes.\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e If you feel that strongly that I am going about this the wrong way,\n\u003e \u003e I am happy to step back and let someone else sort it out (I will\n\u003e \u003e still do all the testing I possibly can). I would feel that this\n\u003e \u003e would be a real shame and we have the chance to setup requirements\n\u003e \u003e to functionality to tests all with traceability. why not do it\n\u003e \u003e right from the start?\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e I will open up my vps' somepoint over the next few days and you\n\u003e \u003e can see what I mean. I will setup a fake git project, and sort out\n\u003e \u003e the interactions.\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e ------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e How fast is your code?\n\u003e \u003e\u003e 3 out of 4 devs don\\\\\\'t know how their code performs in\n\u003e \u003e\u003e production. Find out how slow your code is with AppDynamics\n\u003e \u003e\u003e Lite. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219672;13503038;z?\n\u003e \u003e\u003e http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html\n\u003e \u003e\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e \u003e\u003e Bitcoin-development mailing list\n\u003e \u003e\u003e Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\n\u003e \u003e\u003e https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development\n\u003e \u003e\u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e ------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e Got visibility?\n\u003e \u003e Most devs has no idea what their production app looks like. Find\n\u003e \u003e out how fast your code is with AppDynamics Lite.\n\u003e \u003e http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219671;13503038;y?\n\u003e \u003e http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e _______________________________________________ Bitcoin-development\n\u003e \u003e mailing list Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\n\u003e \u003e https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----\n\u003e Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (MingW32)\n\u003e Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/\n\u003e\n\u003e iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJQaaieAAoJEFvEB9dQFvtQUi0H/3Eh72DqxwBt6AeNos/hJNqQ\n\u003e ZowMNFRupJQM301EJ7SPQmcnVuc3RF2Jw//ckpAqdpkqhHCgGO9HX/q+Ic2A9erQ\n\u003e CfKbUOwQgqKuLQTZ8eT5UMh969Uw8PMazo711d2I23etU0VhSK/MvjB5IiYIq5fB\n\u003e RJdCEluwvACaiftqfm4RA9HXXJGMnsZtlSWjVQCkg2FyYZKfpctEFdGCg6R8IaP7\n\u003e ypyglR7TfygcjhUMHeWkQQCP2m2gBOHpx9H99uNBosF+6pLBhCiGUrwVkl8HUiiN\n\u003e 4YfhsvoRQ0BWNgvO9wH1H4EyyZtJsE7S926BNkhd4uewWGV/qe8gML+uJRstPDg=\n\u003e =L66i\n\u003e -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e ------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\u003e Got visibility?\n\u003e Most devs has no idea what their production app looks like.\n\u003e Find out how fast your code is with AppDynamics Lite.\n\u003e http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219671;13503038;y?\n\u003e http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html\n\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e Bitcoin-development mailing list\n\u003e Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net\n\u003e https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development\n\u003e\n\n\n\n-- \n------------------------------\n\n[image: CoinLab Logo]PETER VESSENES\nCEO\n\n*peter at coinlab.com * /  206.486.6856  / SKYPE: vessenes\n811 FIRST AVENUE  /  SUITE 480  /  SEATTLE, WA 98104\n-------------- next part --------------\nAn HTML attachment was scrubbed...\nURL: \u003chttp://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/attachments/20121001/bf75a1eb/attachment.html\u003e"}