{"type":"rich","version":"1.0","author_name":"npub1fx98zxt3lzspjs5f4msr0fxysx5euucm29ghysryju7vpc9j0jzqtcl2d8","author_url":"https://nostr.ae/npub1fx98zxt3lzspjs5f4msr0fxysx5euucm29ghysryju7vpc9j0jzqtcl2d8","provider_name":"njump","provider_url":"https://nostr.ae","html":"📅 Original date posted:2015-07-23\n📝 Original message:On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 8:24 PM, Jeff Garzik via bitcoin-dev\n\u003cbitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e wrote:\n\u003e To the user, talk of a fee market is equivalent to talk about block size -\n\u003e various opinions are tossed about, but it doesn't really impact them.  Fees\n\u003e have been low for 6 years.\n\u003e\n\u003e We see this with the actual data - no fee pressure on average for the\n\u003e entirety of bitcoin's history.  We see this with the recent stress tests,\n\u003e which exposed dumb wallet behavior WRT fees.   Users -and software- had the\n\u003e expectation\n\nThat's because demand for space (transactions) was always lower than\nthe supply (block space) and no market price (fees) arose.\nNow the market (not the supply) has changed: demand has increased.\nWith a fixed supply, it was perfectly reasonable to expect that fees\nwould rise (from zero).\nIf the user expectation is that a price would never arise because\nsupply is going to be increased ad infinitum and they will always be\nable to send fast in-chain bitcoin transactions for free, just like\nbreath air (an abundant resource) for free, then we should change that\nexpectation as soon as possible.\n\n\u003e Remember, this is not a judgement on whether or not fee market/pressure\n\u003e should exist.  It is simply a factual observation that users/market have not\n\u003e experienced this new economic policy.\n\nIt is not a new economic policy, it is a new market situation. Please,\nstop saying that.\n\n\u003e That opens the question - why now?   Why make bitcoin growth more expensive\n\u003e at this time in its young life?  Many smart people would prefer that bitcoin\n\u003e continue to grow, rather than making the system more expensive to use right\n\u003e now.\n\nIf \"not now\", then when?\nI've been asking that question repeatedly and the closest to an answer\nthat I got from the \"not now side\" was \"the hashrate being paid by\nfees instead of subsidy it's too far away in the future to worry about\nit now\".\nThat answer is not very satisfying to me.\n\n\u003e Choosing \"let a fee market develop\" -- today -- is picking economic sides,\n\u003e picking winners \u0026 losers in the market.\n\nYes, business plans that rely on free in-chain transactions may fail,\nbusiness plans that are planning for a future with fees and without\nsubsidies may get the advantage they deserve. But \"kicking the can\" is\njust picking winners and losers in opposite way.\nYou seem to imply that rewarding inertia and laziness is the best\noption for short-term bitcoin adoption and you may be right.\nI simply think these arguments shouldn't be considered at all: the\ncriteria for the consensus block size should be purely based on\ntechnological capacity (propagation benchmarking, etc) and\ncentralization concerns (those in the \"not now side\" have already seen\nthis 2-year-old video[1], right?).\nBut it seems to me that the \"not now side\" has no centralization\nconcerns at all and their true position is \"not ever hit the blocksize\nlimit\", that's the only explanation I can find to their lack of\nanswers to the \"when do you think we should allow users to notice that\nthere's a limit in the blocksize to guarantee that the system can be\ndecentralized?\". I've even read that the consensus limit \"was just a\ntemporary measure\". Then Gavin lowers his 32 GB limit to an 8 GB\n\"compromise\".\nMaybe I'm being paranoid, but I'm really afraid that when the  \"not\nnow side\" wins this battle (like they've won for 6 years, as you say)\nthey will simply advance the front and start another battle, because\ntheir true hidden faction is the \"not ever side\".\nPlease, Jeff, Gavin, Mike, show me that I'm wrong on this point.\nPlease, answer my question this time.\nIf \"not now\", then when?\n\n[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZp7UGgBR0I"}