{"type":"rich","version":"1.0","author_name":"npub15wz8j5cse6sexlw6f5q7arc5efe5hxn6kcxxyy222et8qms4u3lsemaru8","author_url":"https://nostr.ae/npub15wz8j5cse6sexlw6f5q7arc5efe5hxn6kcxxyy222et8qms4u3lsemaru8","provider_name":"njump","provider_url":"https://nostr.ae","html":"📅 Original date posted:2015-08-08\n📝 Original message:Bitcoin is an irreversible payment system.  When you pay someone using its\nmain selling point, which is removing the need for physical presence, you\nare trusting that person.  Bitcoin doesn't obviate trust.  It obviates\nauthority.  Centralization of trust is what creates the authority that we\nall recognize as bad for our species.  It does this by making the\nauthority's use of coercion acceptable.\n\nBitcoin removes the need for authority, not trust.  It replaces trust in a\nsingle body with trust in a majority.  We want that majority to be healthy\nand varied (as opposed to largely co-opted by some authority). The\nreplacement has two effects.  1) It is very difficult for any single body\nto become the (coercive) authority that everyone has to trust (like central\nbanks). 2) It is very easy for a person to find a different single body to\ntrust if they don't like the one they are trusting now - or even stop\ntrusting one body and trust the majority instead, relying on #1 for\nprotection, and taking on the responsibility of running a full node.\n\nThe philosophical foundation of a thing is ultimately the basis of its\nvalue, so I thought it useful to point out the distinction between\nauthority and trust in the bitcoin ecosystem.  I welcome disagreements with\nmy philosophical position, as that is how I learn.\n\nDave.\n\nOn Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Adam Back via bitcoin-dev \u003c\nbitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e wrote:\n\n\u003e On 7 August 2015 at 22:35, Thomas Zander via bitcoin-dev\n\u003e \u003cbitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e wrote:\n\u003e \u003e the need an individual has for running a node is a completely different\n\u003e concept than the\n\u003e \u003e need for nodes to exist.  And, really, you are describing miners, not\n\u003e nodes.\n\u003e\n\u003e It's not as simple as trusting miners, Bitcoin security needs some\n\u003e reasonable portion of economic interest to be validating their receipt\n\u003e of coins against a full node they run.\n\u003e\n\u003e I do it myself because I dont want to lose money, as do many power\n\u003e users.  Most bitcoin ecosystem companies do it.  You dont have to run\n\u003e it all the time, just sync it when you want to check your own coin\n\u003e receipt with higher assurance.\n\u003e\n\u003e \u003e As we concluded in our previous email, the need to run a node is\n\u003e inversely\n\u003e \u003e proportional to the ability (or willingness) to trust others.\n\u003e\n\u003e Even if you are willing to trust others, trusting miners or random\n\u003e full nodes would be unsafe if not for the reasonable portion of\n\u003e economic interest validating their own received coins.  That holds\n\u003e miners honest, otherwise they could more easily present fake\n\u003e information to SPV users.\n\u003e\n\u003e \u003e And lets face it, practically everyone trusts others with their money\n\u003e today.\n\u003e\n\u003e Bitcoin's very reason for existence is to avoid that need.  For people\n\u003e fully happy to trust others with their money, Bitcoin may not be as\n\u003e interesting to them.\n\u003e\n\u003e \u003e\u003e If the impact of the system goes u[p], so should the - joint -\n\u003e incentives to\n\u003e \u003e\u003e keep it secure. And I think we're (slowly) failing at that.\n\u003e \u003e\n\u003e \u003e That is your opinion.\n\u003e\n\u003e What Pieter said is an accurate summary and non-controversial.\n\u003e\n\u003e Adam\n\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e bitcoin-dev mailing list\n\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev\n\u003e\n\n\n\n-- \nI like to provide some work at no charge to prove my value. Do you need a\ntechie?\nI own Litmocracy \u003chttp://www.litmocracy.com\u003e and Meme Racing\n\u003chttp://www.memeracing.net\u003e (in alpha).\nI'm the webmaster for The Voluntaryist \u003chttp://www.voluntaryist.com\u003e which\nnow accepts Bitcoin.\nI also code for The Dollar Vigilante \u003chttp://dollarvigilante.com/\u003e.\n\"He ought to find it more profitable to play by the rules\" - Satoshi\nNakamoto\n-------------- next part --------------\nAn HTML attachment was scrubbed...\nURL: \u003chttp://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/attachments/20150808/7a148b4f/attachment.html\u003e"}