{"type":"rich","version":"1.0","author_name":"weev (npub1we…409xg)","author_url":"https://nostr.ae/npub1weev88wc43slz6jjlq2h30ltmd0ccu9utfe8wet2kkax0w6epavqw409xg","provider_name":"njump","provider_url":"https://nostr.ae","html":"Look man, I appreciate you and I want to once again say that I think CLINK is the best way to receive a Lightning payment. It resolves the centralization/surveillance/censorship issue of LNurl reliance on domain names and is not completely, visibly fucking stupid like BOLT12. But this is the kind of statement that says “I want a peer to peer payment protocol without any peers.” Because normal people are not going to oneshot a new CLINK implementation. Even if they know how to do so, and are relatively sophisticated, specifically with financial products they are going to not have confidence in the output. There is zero room in a payment network for the kind of error rates and half-assedness of implementations that we see in Lightning products. It has burned Bitcoin’s reputation in massive numbers of countries, probably in an irreparable way, most likely forever. In virtually all of Eastern Europe, people on the street want USDT on TRON, penalize Bitcoin users with higher fee rates, and it is largely a result of being burned by LN products that Bitcoiners told them to use. \n\nWe’ve had a decade of LN development and there is only one thing that is “normie-friendly” and production grade, and that’s Square. And real world businesses actually regularly receiving LN payments using Square are not telling us good things. \n\nPeer to peer payments networks have to fit all major real world use cases. I have a lot of payments on XMR. If someone wants an iOS app, there’s a phone app. I don’t use a phone to do accounting, I don’t know of any serious business that does, and I need a desktop wallet and a CLI implementation with an API that can be programmatically queried. My customers, like any large business, come from a mix of desktop environments, iOS and Android. If my customer has a Steam Deck, there is an existing native Linux client that just works, in fact it is the same one I am using on my Mac right now. I also have sent Monero payments from my own Steam Deck! \n\nIf any of these singular components were missing, if I were told at any point that I needed to make my own Monero implementation to use with my existing stack, or if I were told that the only options to send and receive Monero were a PWA and an Android client, I would have laughed in the faces of the XMR developers and moved to Zcash, even though I think that Zcash has very obvious problems. And herein lies the rub. \n\nIf you are seeking to make a payments protocol and all you have is a PWA and a native Android application, even if you have the theoretically best protocol in the whole world, and it has zero problems (LN definitely does not in the field), you still do not really have anything usable. You have a *technology demo*. CLINK is a nice technology demo. It is by far, on paper, the best way I have seen to implement Lightning. I think it is the coolest thing that I have seen out of Lightning. But it is not ready for the real world. I am not going to tell people to use this to send me money. It is not worth my time. Monero *works*, has worked for Lightning has been conceived, has always gotten better, not worse, and has delivered on all the things Satoshi advocated for. To convince me to move off of it, you have to be an *order of magnitude better*, because I’ve already made logistic and infrastructure investments into Monero. And you are not an order of magnitude better. You are at least an order of magnitude worse, as is the case for literally every Lightning product. \n\nI, also, like virtually everyone who has tried to receive payments on a regular basis with Lightning, have had negative experiences with it. And you have very little room in a payment network for negative experiences. You say, rightly, that BOLT12 is absolutely retarded. I agree with you. But you want to convince me to start using this other Lightning thing, when you haven’t dotted your eyes and crossed your tees, and you are still in the “cool technology demo” phase. And I think that every Lightning thing has done this to me. There are too many ways to send a Lightning payment, to my knowledge all of them have had failures and problems at rates that are unacceptable for financial products, including the one made the billionaire developer that went on Joe Rogan to talk about buying Bitcoin. And that lack of understanding of the real world makes virtually any reasonable person, when confronted with a new Lightning product, think that the next new Lightning thing is yet another unfinished cool technology demo that wants to use its user base for infinite free QA. \n\nI am probably not salvageable to Bitcoiners. I am not going to use CLINK, at least not until a massive number of other people, especially really dumb people who have zero sophistication and more tolerance for problems than me are using it and telling me that it works flawlessly and isn’t like the other Lightning products that have been around. And I am losing faith in Bitcoin under the current leadership and plan on selling the rest of my Bitcoins for XMR after the eCash fork. But I love Bitcoin, it was a thing I was very excited about for half my adult life, it is very dear to me, I have warm memories of it and it has paid for my children’s futures and the roof over my head. I would like to still be using Bitcoin. But it has been a decade of bullshit, I have real commerce to engage in that does not tolerate this shit, and my patience for this attitude has run out. \n\nnostr:nevent1qqsgref9rt3zkha0aesqx5me52skr02cgsxg940nkyzvr20uhtjfm7gzyqe3dcmfdhn56wv4jynmnkzzmatmmhzar3a03gz0r0r6akqtg3ggsqcyqqqqqqgpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgqgdwaehxw309ahx7uewd3hkcqg5waehxw309aex2mrp0yhxgctdw4eju6t0cgqnts"}