{"type":"rich","version":"1.0","author_name":"npub1j3u42vq63qzs2nyddgkf4s4t7pa85x855vas54e6yauxsvpf2wcsacwg9h","author_url":"https://nostr.ae/npub1j3u42vq63qzs2nyddgkf4s4t7pa85x855vas54e6yauxsvpf2wcsacwg9h","provider_name":"njump","provider_url":"https://nostr.ae","html":"📅 Original date posted:2015-07-29\n📝 Original message:We could care less about you selling your bitcoins or moving to\nsomething else.\n\nWhat we care more is keeping bitcoin a successful project which offers\nclear benefits to the world. I agree a fee market is good and needed,\nand transactions shouldn't be free ever, but users should also be able\nto transact fast and relatively cheap, as opposite to the competition,\nor at least with the same costs, so people won't move to something else.\n\nThe more people use bitcoin, the more demand we have on the market for\nBTC, the higher BTC/FIAT rate will be, more people will become\ninterested in mining and so on. Bitcoin is not a rich-only-private-club,\nit's an open, global, decentralized payment network. The less people use\nit... I guess you figured it out.\n\nSo we could care less that you will go away in case the fee market won't\nbecome absurd or too expensive to use for most users. Having some\noffchain solution for small transactions would be a good idea, but this\ndoesn't mean we should make small transactions impossible due to absurd\nfees.\n\nOn 7/29/2015 8:47 PM, Raystonn . via bitcoin-dev wrote:\n\u003e\u003e When a category of users would get priced out because of the fee\n\u003e market, they would be free to use any altcoin they want.\n\u003e  \n\u003e I believe that pretty well sums up where we’re headed if transaction\n\u003e rate is artificially limited, whether that be by maximum block size\n\u003e limit or something else.  A fee market will necessarily include more\n\u003e than just Bitcoin.  The reality is it’s very easy to trade value across\n\u003e different blockchains, and thus a fee market will bleed value from\n\u003e Bitcoin and give it to alternative blockchains.  If Bitcoin’s blocks are\n\u003e at maximum capacity, people will exchange for something that allows them\n\u003e to transact with a lesser fee, then make the desired payment.  This adds\n\u003e value to the alternative blockchain and removes it from Bitcoin.\n\u003e  \n\u003e Anyone thinking the fee market can be restrained to Bitcoin alone is\n\u003e mistaken.\n\u003e \n\u003e  \n\u003e *From:* Vali Zero via bitcoin-dev\n\u003e \u003cmailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e\n\u003e *Sent:* Wednesday, July 29, 2015 7:09 AM\n\u003e *To:* bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e \u003cmailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e\n\u003e *Subject:* [bitcoin-dev] Răspuns: Personal opinion on the fee market\n\u003e from a worried local trader\n\u003e  \n\u003e I am disappointed that you did not understand my point of view. Let me\n\u003e rephrase it for you,\n\u003e  \n\u003e People tipping, buying 0.99$ products and gamblers that need Bitcoin\n\u003e transactions *more* than the rest of the people will afford the fees\n\u003e that establish the equilibrium between demand and supply of Bitcoin\n\u003e transactions. The people are free to use they money for whatever they\n\u003e like, but you should understand that Bitcoin transactions are not free.\n\u003e  \n\u003e I was merely attempting to point out that spammers and gamblers would be\n\u003e the first ones that would go away. They would be free to spam or gamble,\n\u003e but they would have to pay for it.\n\u003e  \n\u003e When a category of users would get priced out because of the fee market,\n\u003e they would be free to use any altcoin they want.\n\u003e  \n\u003e Please understand that not everyone will leave. The more important\n\u003e players will remain, those that need it the most. The other players are\n\u003e free to use whatever altcoin they wish.\n\u003e  \n\u003e  \n\u003e În Miercuri, 29 Iulie 2015 16:47:57, Angel Leon \u003cgubatron at gmail.com\u003e a\n\u003e scris:\n\u003e \n\u003e \n\u003e \"the gamblers and perhaps people transacting very low amounts. The\n\u003e people that actually need Bitcoin would remain.\"\n\u003e \n\u003e so people tipping, buying $0.99 products, and gamblers actually don't\n\u003e need Bitcoin.\n\u003e Who are you to say what people need to use money for?\n\u003e This statement goes against the freedom of decentralization and\n\u003e financial freedom Bitcoin should be able to provide.\n\u003e \n\u003e It's an open network and it will be used as most users see fit, and that\n\u003e requires a blocksize increase wether you like it or not, it's simple\n\u003e physics, other time wait times will become unbearable for those not\n\u003e willing to pay the high fees, if people leave, then it only mean\n\u003e bitcoins isn't useful, and if bitcoin isn't useful, it's worthless.\n\u003e \n\u003e \n\u003e  \n\u003e http://twitter.com/gubatron\n\u003e  \n\u003e On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 9:27 AM, Vali Zero via bitcoin-dev\n\u003e \u003cbitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e \u003cmailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e\u003e wrote:\n\u003e \n\u003e     Hello,\n\u003e \n\u003e     I have been reading an argument saying that paying higher fees would\n\u003e     scare Bitcoin users and they would stop using it, preferring bank\n\u003e     transfers or other payment methods. This does not make sense for me.\n\u003e     If some users leave, then demand for bitcoin transactions goes down\n\u003e     and so do the fees. The others remain.\n\u003e \n\u003e     Fee market means that an equilibrium is found between the demand for\n\u003e     bitcoin transactions and the available supply (given by the block\n\u003e     size). The fee is the price that finds this equilibrium.\n\u003e \n\u003e     If a fee market starts to exist, the first ones to leave are the\n\u003e     spammers, probably followed by the gamblers and perhaps people\n\u003e     transacting very low amounts. The people that actually need Bitcoin\n\u003e     would remain.\n\u003e \n\u003e     Please allow this fee market to form...\n\u003e \n\u003e     In the absence of a functioning fee market, I will refuse to run\n\u003e     Bitcoin code that increases the block size and will do my best to\n\u003e     tell everyone I know not to upgrade towards running such code. If\n\u003e     Bitcoin succombs to the free stuff army, I will sell all the coins\n\u003e     and leave. Nothing is for free.\n\u003e \n\u003e     I apologize for any exagerations, but I just felt strongly towards\n\u003e     expressing my opinion here. I'm only a local Bitcoin trader,\n\u003e     computer engineer, with a reasonable understanding of free markets.\n\u003e     And I'm running only one full node.\n\u003e \n\u003e     Kind regards,\n\u003e     Valentin\n\u003e \n\u003e \n\u003e     _______________________________________________\n\u003e     bitcoin-dev mailing list\n\u003e     bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e     \u003cmailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e\n\u003e     https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev\n\u003e \n\u003e"}