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2023-06-07 15:42:21 UTC

- reply

📅 Original date posted:2015-07-15
📝 Original message:> It's such a misconception that running many nodes somehow helps. It's much better that you run and control one or a few full nodes which you actually use to validate your transactions, than to run 1000s of nodes in third party datacenters. The latter only looks more decentralized.
I guess we sort of disagree here, perhaps my word “strength” was not the right word. Yes, running 6000 vs 7000 nodes makes no difference for the network strength, but (a) running 50 nodes vs 5000 does make a difference. I would love to see how the number of nodes drop if companies like blockcypher turn off their servers. Obviously it would not go 50. (b) running different clients (if blockcypher runs non-reference-bitcoinD client) makes the network less open wide-spread bugs
I feel we are really derailing the original topic btw :-)
> On Jul 15, 2015, at 9:11 AM, Pieter Wuille <pieter.wuille at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 12:06 PM, Me via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org <mailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote:
> Have you talk to them? If not, how can you be sure they don’t run large number of standard nodes and actually make the network stronger? Personally I never bring claims like this if I just assume. A lot of people in the community really trust you, do you realize you potentially hurt them for no reason?
>
> Running normal full nodes only provides extra service to nodes synchronizing and lightweight clients. It does not "make the network stronger" in the sense that it does not reduce the trust the participants need to have in each other.
>
> It's such a misconception that running many nodes somehow helps. It's much better that you run and control one or a few full nodes which you actually use to validate your transactions, than to run 1000s of nodes in third party datacenters. The latter only looks more decentralized.
>
> --
> Pieter
>
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2023-06-07 15:42:21 UTC

- reply

📅 Original date posted:2015-07-15
📝 Original message:Have you talk to them? If not, how can you be sure they don’t run large number of standard nodes and actually make the network stronger? Personally I never bring claims like this if I just assume. A lot of people in the community really trust you, do you realize you potentially hurt them for no reason?
btw I do not work for them nor have any money invested in them in case anybody asks
> On Jul 15, 2015, at 8:59 AM, Peter Todd <pete at petertodd.org> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 08:49:13AM -0700, Me wrote:
>>> Blockcypher's "confidence factor" model(1)
>>> under the hood - yet another one of those sybil attacking network
>>> monitoring things
>>
>>
>> Peter, I noticed on your twitter you have a lot of bad things to say about Blockcypher and their business model (which I might not full agree, but totally respect), can you share any evidence they perform any form of Sybil attack on the network, please.
>
> For Blockcypher to succesfully do what they claim to do they need to
> connect to a large % of nodes on the network; that right there is a
> sybil attack. It's an approach that uses up connection slots for the
> entire network and isn't scalable; if more than a few services were
> doing that the Bitcoin network would become significantly less reliable,
> at some point collapsing entirely.
>
> --
> 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
> 0000000000000000093f699ccdb323aa638af1131249ec2e1bacbf367163807a

2023-06-07 15:42:20 UTC

- reply

📅 Original date posted:2015-07-15
📝 Original message:Thank you Simon for sharing your tests, if possible can you share TX hashes please. I would recommend to send them money post-mortem. What you did is really valuable information, however it can be classified as fraud. I really don’t want open this topic here, just suggesting to keep your record clean :-)
> the double-spent txs
> had near 100% propagation on blockchain.info (who has unfortunately
> purged the relevant data already)
Can you please share the TX Hash
> Blockcypher's "confidence factor" model(1)
> under the hood - yet another one of those sybil attacking network
> monitoring things
Peter, I noticed on your twitter you have a lot of bad things to say about Blockcypher and their business model (which I might not full agree, but totally respect), can you share any evidence they perform any form of Sybil attack on the network, please.
> On Jul 15, 2015, at 8:18 AM, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 07:35:21AM -0700, Tom Harding via bitcoin-dev wrote:
>>
>> You perform a valuable service with your demonstration, but you
>> neglected to include the txid's to show that you actually did it.
>
>> Your advice is must-follow for anyone relying on an unconfirmed tx: it
>> must pay a good fee and be highly relayable/minable.
>
> Actually, I was looking at what I believe was (part of?) this attack
> yesterday in the logs on my full-RBF nodes and the txs involved *did*
> have good fees and were highly relayable/minable - the double-spent txs
> had near 100% propagation on blockchain.info (who has unfortunately
> purged the relevant data already)
>
> Shapeshift.io depends on Blockcypher's "confidence factor" model(1)
> under the hood - yet another one of those sybil attacking network
> monitoring things - to estimate tx confirmation probability by looking
> at the % of nodes a tx has propagated too. But miners frequently use
> customized Bitcoin Core codebases that don't follow normal policies, so
> those measurements don't actually tell you what you need to know.
>
> hapeshift confirmed(2) the attack - confirming that they disabled
> unconfirmed tx acceptance - said they're going to "improve" their
> system... It'll be interesting to see what that actually entails.
>
> 1) https://medium.com/blockcypher-blog/from-zero-to-hero-bitcoin-transactions-in-8-seconds-7c9edcb3b734
> 2) https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3ddkhy/bitcoindev_significant_losses_by_doublespending/ct468p7
>
> --
> 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
> 000000000000000010bf087ed645cba129e2523930d5cde636ddbae9e03aef9c
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