brugeman

Hi, this sounds great but you're probably 1 of 10 users of this relay and that's just not worth the effort. Besides, I'd say relay-browsing apps should just implement these filters on the client - with wot/reactions/etc as filters, that's much more versatile then me trying to cater to every possible filtering/UX need at the relay level.

2025-09-10 09:07:02 CEST

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Channel peers could try to broadcast old channel state, but there are watchtowers for that, and you can just code it to use reputable LSP. My wallet uses phoenixd, I'm pretty sure Asinq won't try to benefit from my channel if the enclave terminates.

2025-09-09 19:05:41 CEST

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I mean if keys can't be extracted and operator just kills the enclave then keys are gone and LN node's channels are force closed and node's sats are gone with the keys and operator gets no benefit from the shutdown. Or am I missing something?

2025-09-09 18:47:56 CEST

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My point is the motivation for taking your funds for myself is obvious, while taking them to no-one's benefit - not so obvious.

2025-09-09 18:28:14 CEST

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It's not a rug, funds aren't stolen, but destroyed - enclave is terminated and keys are lost, a very different set of incentives to do this.

2025-09-09 18:12:45 CEST

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I think the difference btw "we are 100% sure this mint runs this code" vs "we don't really know what it's doing but some checks make it look fine" is significant.

2025-09-09 17:43:44 CEST

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I would separate rug pull risk from service failure risk. Cashu is custodial without unilateral exit so with or without enclave, if mint goes down, funds are inaccessible. To me it looks like rug pull risks are minimized with enclaves - we could get a lot of independent mints all running verified code, which sounds quite awesome. The rest are reliability questions: backup might be sync real time, coordinator can live in another enclave, dns record can be controlled by the current master, updates don't require a blockchain - just a set of signatures by pre-declared maintainers (that's my current approach). Not that it's a proven set of solutions, or that I am against the blockchain, but I think more experiments are needed to figure out the actual problems and solutions.

2025-09-09 16:32:58 CEST

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How can they still be rugged if mint and it's LN backend are both in the enclave and keys never leave and enclave termination is solved by backups?

2025-09-09 16:15:31 CEST

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Sounds like you're trying to solve the 'what if operator terminates the enclave' with a blockchain? I had a different vision for this, involving custom key stores (also in enclave) - enclave uploads it's keys to keystores (I have 2 now) and if it restarts it can pull those from the keystores (if attestation matches). This can be extended arbitrarily to enclave making a 'backup' of itself - launching a backup process in another enclave instance which will be allowed to pull keys from keystores if the master goes down, etc. This implies that we'd have many operators running compatible app servers in enclaves, all open without kyc paid in bitcoin. That's roughly where I'm going with 'enclaved' server.

2025-09-09 16:08:24 CEST

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Tell me more on why blockchain is needed? To set policies for how to get the keys out? Why would you want the keys out?

2025-09-08 10:38:08 CEST

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Not to be rude, but how do you know it's bad? And bad compared to what? Is there a source that is not bad? I maintained stats for myself to see the real picture, and some people think the real picture is different, but they never cite the source. I 100% support passing the torch to someone, but don't hope the new maintainer will give you much "better" data.

2025-09-08 10:25:35 CEST

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So do you want to work on stats, or the whole package - the relay, the nostr.band site with search, profile stats, trending etc?

2025-09-04 14:34:10 CEST

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I'm ok, priorities are changing. And yes, nostr.band and stats haven't been worked on for a very long time, keeping them up until good alternatives emerge.

2025-08-07 15:05:04 CEST

Clone yourself https://github.com/nostrband/askexperts

2025-07-21 09:09:09 CEST

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Hi, it should have been fixed, does it update now? Apologies.

2025-07-08 11:22:24 CEST

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On Amber cc @nprofile…lmth

2025-07-08 11:18:47 CEST

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Is it working now? I was restarting it and making some changes today.

2025-07-02 10:24:51 CEST

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There's L402 by Lightning Labs, there's l402.org by fewsats, there's x402 by coinbase, there's cashu nut-24. Cashu seems like the simplest indeed.

2025-06-30 16:58:11 CEST

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I'd try that!

2025-06-30 16:57:18 CEST

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On my side too

2025-06-30 16:53:22 CEST

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Apologies, relay.nsec.app was down for a while, should be up now.

2025-06-25 08:58:22 CEST

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Fixed thanks

2025-06-25 08:58:04 CEST

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Fixed, thanks

2025-06-24 09:02:23 CEST

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I am the creator, there were no commits there for a while, I didn't remove anything.

2025-06-23 12:43:16 CEST

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Try reloading the page, etc. We changed nothing there, something might have changed with your extension/browser setup.

2025-06-10 10:57:47 CEST

@nprofile…wvxz check PR please https://github.com/dezh-tech/ddsr/pull/16

2025-06-05 18:50:24 CEST

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You will soon be able to launch docker images in enclaved app server at a fraction of the cost

2025-06-04 13:15:34 CEST

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Sent you DM.

2025-06-04 12:01:17 CEST

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> In most cases there is no real way for Nostr account to be a practical thing to use without a the possibility of a human being laying eyes on the nsec.
If nsec is generated inside an enclave and bunker url is returned then no human has seen it.
If some "policy" was provided when nsec was generated, like "require m-of-n multisig to change perms, rotate the bunker url, change this policy, etc", then a board of directors can control the nsec without seeing it, and if one of humans leaves they can change the policy and the bunker url.
Does this make any sense, or is there still a fundamental flaw here and we're just kicking the can?

2025-06-04 10:55:55 CEST

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So were you able to come up with a solution for yourself on this core issue?

2025-05-30 12:07:11 CEST

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Ah ok, its for nutzaps, makes sense!

2025-05-30 12:04:34 CEST

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50k
which wallet are you integrating?

2025-05-30 12:02:16 CEST

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Saw pic of him from Vegas, it said he's cooking something and didn't quit

2025-05-29 18:00:52 CEST

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After you go through hell of getting your android and ios dev accounts

2025-05-29 17:59:52 CEST

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Found it, says Connecting and then Request timeout.

2025-05-29 17:54:02 CEST

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How can I connect the nwc wallet?

2025-05-28 08:48:18 CEST

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Can't login with bunker bcs it throws on auth_url challenge.

2025-05-26 16:17:02 CEST

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Awesome! Apologies for the issue!

2025-05-26 10:34:56 CEST

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Fixed, could you please open use.nsec.app then wait a bit, click Reload button at the header when it appears to update it, then retry. Thanks you very much for this feedback!

2025-05-24 07:26:18 CEST

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Just use

2025-05-23 23:17:19 CEST

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That's helpful! Will get back to you

2025-05-23 23:16:04 CEST

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VS plugin https://github.com/RooCodeInc/Roo-Code

2025-05-23 23:14:53 CEST

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I felt the same way with main projects, but starting from scratch is much easier, just make me a prototype and we'll figure it out. There are enough important pieces to think about and leave mundane to the bot

2025-05-23 21:24:16 CEST

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I've been vibing a side thing in the background for a week. I break it into small tasks, think through the architecture and major important pieces. Then roocode and Claude do next task in several minutes. Sometimes it goes crazy and I had to rollback. Sometimes it's stuck and I have to figure things out. But if you treat it like a super productive junior, it's fascinating. It would take me at least 3 weeks full-time to get where we are now. Just don't think it can do big things alone.

2025-05-23 21:19:10 CEST

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Where are the other 86?

2025-05-23 09:36:31 CEST

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My apologies. Could you please try again now?

2025-05-22 19:55:24 CEST

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When you paste the bunker url to Jumble, can you then go back to use.nsec.app and check if there is a dialog popping up asking to confirm the connection?

2025-05-22 08:53:54 CEST

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What's the problem with nsec.app ?

2025-05-21 11:07:24 CEST

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It has balance limit of 1000 sats, it's in testing-only mode right now.

2025-05-20 18:24:59 CEST

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NIP89 was made for specific thing - declaring which url to use as template and how to put npub/nevent/etc to the app's url to open events in an app. IMO it's use for DVMs was a mistake, and I suggest you create a new kind for announcing agents with all the necessary metadata for this specific use case.

2025-05-20 16:47:24 CEST

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I need to look at how to parse them properly. Does any of big clients show nutzaps under notes?

2025-05-20 15:32:29 CEST

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Well while we were talking RooCode looked through one third-party golang codebase, figured out how to do what I need, and wrote me a ts function to solve my problem. I tried doing that by hand before and just gave up. Sometimes it's super helpful.

2025-05-20 13:36:44 CEST

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I'm only playing with it atm, no good number yet.

2025-05-20 09:35:50 CEST

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Should Agent Cards also be an addressable nostr event? Either as a copy of the json file, or as some summary just to allow the discovery of json url using hashtags, wot etc. I'd prefer the former - some agents might very well be behind NAT and shouldn't be forced to need an http server.

2025-05-20 08:57:21 CEST

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Sorry I don't see any other way to pass ln address with NWC - lud16 is included now, maybe that's something on your side? Are you setting the NWC string into an existing profile that already had ln address? Maybe Freerse uses address from NWC only if profile didn't have one already?
Yes it's using relay.zap.land

2025-05-19 18:29:41 CEST

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Does the NWC string that you're getting now include &lud16=<address> ?
Yes works great w/ @nprofile…q7y6 !

2025-05-19 16:26:15 CEST

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Ah ok I found it, added lud16 to NWC now - could you please try again checking if LN address will be taken from NWC?
I recommend managing the wallet using Alby Go or similar app for now, I don't have immediate plans to add transfers etc to zap.land

2025-05-19 15:36:16 CEST

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Hi, this isn't really a wallet app, it's just here for you to generate NWC string and start using it elsewhere.
Zap.land gave you the ln address which you could put into your profile, is that what happened? NWC isn't really related to ln address, these are separate things

2025-05-17 09:42:21 CEST

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Ok see it below now.

2025-05-17 09:41:30 CEST

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This is awesome! Any working prototype out these?

2025-05-15 16:31:52 CEST

@nprofile…7c2c @nprofile…n07m please take a look? thanks https://github.com/getAlby/js-sdk/issues/384

2025-05-15 13:35:39 CEST

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Well I told it to use my library by name, it did get some nwc stuff wrong and needed some pointers. Later I tried from scratch to give it a link to library github repo and it did well from the start.

2025-05-15 11:59:14 CEST

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This was basically my first shot, I just used cursor with claude 3.5 sonnet. What do you use?

2025-05-15 10:50:37 CEST

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Kevin says they'll allow invoice creation with offline receiver too, that's promising.

2025-05-15 10:49:32 CEST

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You mean ones I used to vibe code this small app?

2025-05-15 07:12:10 CEST

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Although I am looking at the diagram, the LN payment itself is offline, but looks like invoice generation still needs receiver to be online, which means something like zaps isn't possible offline.

2025-05-15 06:54:37 CEST

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Awesome, thanks! Offline receive is a great capability.

2025-05-14 17:56:12 CEST

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Don't worry, only llms will read it

2025-05-14 17:54:57 CEST

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How so?

2025-05-14 16:28:35 CEST

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Thanks, updated.

2025-05-14 16:17:50 CEST

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Automatic wallet creation by apps for new users is one of the goals of the nwc-enclaved, and it supports zaps.
The tradeoffs with Spark are that it's a new tech and quite complex and not many people can understand it. And Spark operators have to be trusted, although I'd say they should run in enclaves too. And no fees for now but they will come and hopefully will be competitive. And 'unilateral exist' is 'coming soon' at the moment. And your wallet still has to be online 24/7 to receive payments if I understand it correctly. So - pick your poison. I think it's very promising, but wouldn't bet 100% on it right now.

2025-05-14 15:47:17 CEST

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Could you reload and retry please? Works fine here

2025-05-14 15:46:47 CEST

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We will create spank-based on too, it's a different set of tradeoffs.

2025-05-14 15:45:32 CEST

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The wallet service has it's own nostr profile here: @npub1ldl…0rpx

2025-05-14 15:43:10 CEST

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Ah and btw you can add wallet creation to your app using this lib: https://github.com/nostrband/nwc-enclaved-utils
It discovers a valid service instance and creates a wallet in a couple lines of code.

2025-05-14 15:34:13 CEST

Lightning wallet in 1 click!
I vibe-coded a trivial wallet-creation app today: https://zap.land
One click and you get NWC string that you can put into Alby Go to topup the wallet and send payments, or put into Damus/Amethyst to send zaps. You also get LN address that you can paste into your Nostr profile and receive zaps to this wallet.
https://image.nostr.build/9ec71b3e9425129120863d812f9ece3f671838757b4a20ef34e2a840ce64b471.jpg
The backend of this is a development instance of a new custodial lightning wallet deployed in a trusted execution environment. That means you get better security and privacy guarantees, along with great usability. It's open source, you will be able to launch an instance of it yourself and clients could discover your instance along with ours and let users choose. The source code is here: https://github.com/nostrband/nwc-enclaved
This is an invitation for public testing and for your feedback. The wallets created have the max balance limit of 1000 sats and will likely be turned off at some point when testing is over and dev instance needs to be shut down. This is not the real thing, it's a toy to get a taste of it!
The service is based on "phoenixd" wallet with fully automatic liquidity management, which means - fees. Phoenix charges 4 sats + 0.4% per payment - we charge extra 1 sat, phoenix charges 1% plus mining fees for liquidity - we add nothing here, we also charge 1 sat per day to avoid getting spammed. When I say "we" I mean "the code inside the enclave" - it will only use revenue to pay for itself inside the enclave, not to make a profit.
Anyways, send some feedback!

2025-05-14 12:56:25 CEST

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That's what I'm trying to make Cursor do and it's failing miserably :(

2025-05-12 09:21:15 CEST

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Hello, no nsec.app doesn't interfere with your nip05 set in your profile - we assign you our own nip05 but you'd need to enter it into your profile manually for other people to see it.

2025-05-09 14:25:30 CEST

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afaik Alby generates new key for every nwc-connection so they'd have to have a separate auth/conn per user, doesn't seem like a good fit.

2025-05-09 10:26:05 CEST

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Yes it's the first thing I wrote for nostr, closed source mess

2025-05-08 11:41:24 CEST

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I sent a PR with some fixes to bunklay, and there's also an issue: https://github.com/dezh-tech/ddsr/issues/14

2025-05-07 14:57:50 CEST

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Is 50-100 ping from inside the enclave? Does enclave have network access by default or do you have to set it up somehow?

2025-05-07 14:56:51 CEST

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It should be non-strfry (try https://github.com/dezh-tech/ddsr/tree/main/bunklay) it should retain kind 24133 events for 10+ sec and ignore other kinds and that's about it.

2025-05-06 15:44:52 CEST

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I'm on intel, need to check arm too one day.

2025-05-05 09:29:29 CEST

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1500 ping is probably due to you being in Asia, typical ping is 600 (300 of which are strfry).
Key not found sounds like service worker was off when you clicked Upload. Could you please reload the page and try again? Need to figure out how to wake the SW up if it starts sleeping with an open tab.

2025-05-02 19:47:51 CEST

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Btw could you also create the same kind of relay for nip47 (NWC), please? Will use both soon.

2025-05-02 13:59:22 CEST

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One particular thing is that ephemeral events should be kept for a while (i,e. 10 sec) to allow consumers to restart/reconnect. Not sure it's specified anywhere but quite important in practice.

2025-05-02 13:58:10 CEST

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Here it is, nothing fancy afaic https://gist.github.com/nostrband/6aa03b1de494c6f23291661aa4355a15
The js plugin is same as yours.

2025-05-02 12:36:22 CEST

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I could give it but I recommend trying something else, strfry has high internal latency for delivering new events to active reqs (>300ms). I plan to switch from strfry myself, here is a nip46-specific khatru-based relay by @npub1h49…9kay https://github.com/dezh-tech/ddsr/tree/main/bunklay - haven't tried yet, but looks promising.

2025-05-01 16:16:49 CEST

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This rocks!

2025-05-01 13:40:52 CEST

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nsec.app is running over relay.nsec.app which is a normal strfry. It's actually quote slow for ephemeral events processing - it has internal latency of at least 300ms for delivery of new events to active SUBs, plan to switching to something more specialized. Aside from that, again, try the secure enclave thing in settings.

2025-05-01 13:26:28 CEST

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Also please try our new "secure enclave" thing - in settings, should work much more reliably.

2025-05-01 12:26:56 CEST

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Thanks makes sense.

2025-05-01 12:01:55 CEST

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Amber should work fine if kept alive on mobile while using the desktop.

2025-05-01 12:01:23 CEST

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idk about Amber, @nprofile…tcvv

2025-05-01 12:00:31 CEST

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Will give, I need to try it first to see if something feels bad, but definitely can add some food for thought related to my recent research with TEE - i.e. running trusted builds in trusted third-party environments.
Also question - why focus on ecash for payments?

2025-05-01 11:48:20 CEST

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Also mobile apps are turned off by OS at will, especially on iOS, we haven't been able to make that work reliably, so giving up on that path.

2025-05-01 11:47:27 CEST

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That's what Amber should be able to do, web apps can talk to it - though not sure how good it works in practice.

2025-05-01 11:46:24 CEST

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Thanks for the huge work you and others have done on GitViaNostr! I've got a lot to digest now.