Last Notes
I appreciate the correction 👍
Austrian economics does NOT say you need a hard capped monetary supply.
A percentage increase, that also fluctuates, and most important is controlled arbitrarily, is bad, because you can't really plan for it.
Monero and Bitcoin have a decreasing percentage of inflation, while Bitcoin's stops in the year 2140 stops, while Monero's will not.
If you then add coinloss on top, both probably already are deflationary.
https://haven.dergigi.com/672efc5f8bd6bd46c800cb27d2ee8a0b28f8689318b28d0ad9b89c641a6eec16.jpg
This is just a function of people being early in a new technology.
In the future it will seem as ridiculous to mistrust proofs that guarantee supply
as it is to mistrust elliptic curve multiplication to derive unique addresses.
"How do you guarantee the supply on a obfuscated chain" is the new "how do you know they can't hack your Bitcoin"
Mathematics is reliable.
even otherwise smart people are retarded about something.
When you say something has "infinite supply" it means theres an unlimited number of units.
A chain with tail emission NEVER has an unlimited number of units. The supply just increases linearly (or exponentially or whatever the emission rate is), *approaching* infinity as time increases.
The supply is ALWAYS finite, it is always known and it is NEVER infinite.
Its obviously not "infinite supply" and if someone autisticly insists it is, they either dont understand what words mean or have an axe to grind.
#bitcoin #monero
#nevent1q…55vq
So youre SSHing to the VPS and using a TUI?
Nothing is permanent in the world of men.
Its the "the supply cap is already priced in" thing.
Since the consensus right now is a 21M cap, everybody must act as if there are ALREADY 21M. just some coins haven't been "unlocked" yet.
And since monero tail emission never ends, I guess we pretend that right now there are infinite coins? Despite the fact the number of coins is knowable at any time, just like Bitcoin?
Seems to make sense to them....
It isnt pedantic to point out the term "infinite supply" is incorrect when the supply of the thing isn't never infinite.
I can't believe I had to type that out.
#nevent1q…qj6k
You're making inferences about his meaning
and that is a much more interesting conversation, I agree.
But it's just not what he said. He's pretty clear that "it has infinite supply" is an accurate assessment of the situation.
Which is retarded.
And also, monero's tail inflation DOES asymptotically *approach zero. It just never reaches it. Which is an extremely important difference, as you point out.
We can talk about *why approaching but never actually reaching* zero is a better design if you like.
To say BTC has a fixed supply is kind of wrong. It will increase until the year 2140 and then it is capped and won't grow any longer.
And it is also wrong to say Monero's supply is infinite because for everyone currently the supply is steadily inflating about 0.85% per year, just like the BTC supply is. They're currently basically identical.
Only if you look at them at a infinite timescale, then you could argue that Monero's supply is infinite, but no human could experience that, so it basically is a useless metric.
"when t = ∞ your coins are going to zero" 😂
Its just gratuitous sexuality
Ridiculous.
It doesn't "increase the supply infinitely".
It increases it exactly .6 units per block. The supply is ALWAYS finite and at NO time is the supply infinite.
Which is why saying it has an "infinite supply" is fucking stupid.
This isnt hard.
Yes, true. But that's why the Monero community is very conservative in adopting new cryptography and always going multiple audits before changing stuff (I mean that's one of the reasons why I prefer XMR over Zcash).
But if I need to choose between a very tiny chance of an inflation bug and no privacy in a hostile environment, I'll gladly take the tiny chance of a hidden inflation bug and sleep well knowing I (or others) won't doxx themselves using it.
It depends on which service you use and how much you get, but usually a low single digit percentage.
Monero isn't listed anywhere lol
They can only regulate you if you want integration with their system.
You might not know that, but the transactions that create new XMR are not hidden, so you can just sum up all of those coinbase TX and validate the current Monero supply.
And if you look at Austrian economics, nothing says you a need a fixed supply of money for the perfect money.
As long as it's not inflatable by a single group arbitrarily, every participant can predict the future growth of the supply etc. (Btw BTC is inflationary until the year 2140, so your argument would be invalid until then)
And giftcards are a very usable workaround (I use them regularly). I mean I'd love to be able to just use crypto everywhere directly, but that's still quite far off I feel like. In some supermarkets in Switzerland you can already use Monero & Bitcoin to pay directly, but for most situations giftcards are the needed workaround for now.
'A settlement layer must be globally liquid'
Depends on how liquid it needs to actually be, but yeah with BTC not getting delisted any time soon (probably) it's liquidity will be better than XMR's for the foreseeable future.
'predictable'
Monero's supply is as predictable as Bitcoin's. For the rest of time it will increase by ~158k XMR per year, which gives it currently basically the same inflation rate as BTC (about 0.85% p.a.).
'neutral'
What ever is meant by neutral? Monero has basically no concept of tainted coins and no mining pool can censor any particular TX or user (thanks to the privacy), so it's arguably more neutral than BTC.
'secure'
Monero's network is very similarly secured to BTC's when it comes to the ratio of 'electricity needed for mining'/'marketcap' and 'cost of mining hardware'/'marketcap'
But when it comes to security for the user, Monero is much more secure (especially for the not so techy user) thanks to the always on privacy. I can introduce my grandma to Monero and don't have to worry about her exposing her wealth to the whole world etc.
'widely accepted'
In Europe you can basically buy everything except houses with Monero, as there are lots of giftcards for different stuff available and thanks to services like ShopinBit/ProxyStore.
But let's not fool ourselves here, the general acceptance rate of Crypto (regardless of which one) is way to low still.
'Bitcoin is the only digital asset that satisfies all of these simultaneously.'
That is, as I have argued above, not true.
At *what point* is time "infinite?"
Tail emission is NOT "infinite supply" and it's intellectually lazy to claim those are similar.
Have you actually looked at the trade view graph? That's ~12years of history where Monero out competed Bitcoin in the long run (currently).
The other stats just are two of the most recent points of data for showing that people tend to use XMR more than BTC (which could suggest that Monero seems to be the better settlement layer).
If you want more data from Nano-GPT you can look here for example: https://nano-gpt.com/blog/2025-year-in-review-payment-stats
ShopinBit's usage data can be found on their Twitter account: https://xcancel.com/shopinbit/status/2076939737546305755
If you want more datapoints:
https://xcancel.com/mynymbox/status/2070179538634490075
https://xcancel.com/OrangeFren/status/2085704830069133612
So what ever makes you think 'BTC is the better settlement layer' you might want to rethink that ;)
If you have any questions about Monero, feel free to reach out :)
sorry
Moneros tail emission is *0.6* units per block
We have transaction fees also? 🤨
There is a cost to block space. It's a necessary ingredient.
As long as there are people who want to *use it* there will be incentive to *mine it*.
That tail emission will have value (price) as long as there is demand for the network.
Tail emission is a fixed amount, 6 units per block.
so over time that becomes a smaller percentage of the total supply. The percent of inflation increase as time goes on approaches zero. Because the supply grows at 6 units every 2 minutes, but the amount of growth is always the same.
Gold has famously retained its purchasing power over millennia.
The rate of XMR increase is already LOWER than golds annual increase and as I just said, it only decreases from here.
If we look at the history of money, it is obviously *incorrect that a fixed supply is a prerequisite of good money.
In fact, no economist in history has ever suggested we should just cap the amount of monetary units. It is purely an invention of Bitcoin Maximalism, not good monetary policy.
although it's been suggested
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2KRpRMSu4g
I'm a Bach over Beethoven kinda guy
Sorry i don't understand what you mean.
Was the question "at *what point will the tail emission no longer be enough?"
Still not sure what exactly you're getting at though....
And my point was that at ANY given point in time, the Monero supply is *known and finite.* There is NOT any time it can grow into a non-finite supply, even theoretically.
Since its a linear increase,
supply = ∞
when
time = ∞
Which is a mathematical abstraction and doesn't mean anything to real people.
Who is the best rock and roll drummer there ever was and why is it John Bonham?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwiTs60VoTM
GN https://haven.dergigi.com/210e79bb2cdfa7028613e85e20a5e71467934bb8de1798cff0c3ef56bda2fb01.jpg
https://haven.dergigi.com/6fe029b1f240dab8943c054206e3416c115c69e13df4d87332cd4104af2be25c.jpg
And excuse me
But people who conflate "infinite supply" and tail inflation have no business explaining blockchain to other people
I can tell you what the supply of Monero is at any point in time.
How is that "infinite?"
nevent1qqsqqq9wqra58mc55hky943x5s7pk08uakzm68aqnth66gq25r76cngpzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejsyg8eshfsjxtusp0pwxw8xxzm2a8u8mjq047pkc2hmm5ec6kwykvmhv9e048z
Neither freedom nor deflation are objectively defined anywhere
they are only defined by us right now through speaking of them.
We are always limited and restrained, by our bodies and our minds. Mostly our minds.
So I'd challenge the idea that theres any "default state" of freedom, since I often experience restraint in a very natural way.
there arent any default states, it's all subjective experiences.
Theres going to be both transparent and obfuscated chains anyway.
Its not like we won't find out.
You can't use GPUs for monero. Randomx leverages CPU specific instructions.
They're going to map every utxo.
Over a long enough time frame, the anonymity set drops to zero.
Miners are large corporations with debt and investors. Its isn't so simple.
Neglecting the *context* Bitcoin exists within and just saying "the protocol is fine" is a mistake.
A publicly auditable ledger everyone uses for transactions is not the world I want to live in.
No thank you.
Agree.
But there's no usecase for transparent ledger in a adversarial environment.
They can pressure Bitcoin miners,
They can spam Monero with empty blocks,
Pick your poison.
Yes of course.
It's not "destroyed" it's regulatory capture.
Which they can't do with Monero
Best they can do is keep people from using the chain.
Which is of course a legitimate threat.
at least you are clear on that.
But number one is dumb and number two isn't going to work out long-term.
But I really do think it's unfortunate.
I would suggest that all self-involved souls will always be unsatisfied. I'd be interested to know what Rudy thinks inner-peace comes from.
Constantly trying to ensure that *I* am satisfied and happy sounds like hell.
I don't really care if they like Monero or not tbh.
I just think it's weird that we've been screaming from the rooftops about Bitcoin being captured for *years* and advocating for a return to first principles,
And now this. 🤷
The 110 chain didn't attract any miners and even Ocean is defaulting back to the legacy chain now.
It was a hard fork, there are 2 chains but the bip110 chain is dead.
Its better off without them
It's true there has to be incentive for miners to secure the chain. They have hardware and electricity requirements that require USD to procure.
But personally I mine because I want to *use Monero.
NGU and freedom money are not correlated. If anything, they're negatively correlated.
I gave it a try a couple of days ago, and I like what I see so far, even though I can't use it as my primary node yet.
I'm mine with p2pool and so I need it to support zmq before I can switch over and I also need it to support pruning so that I can not have to download and store the entire blockchain
It's not required for me since I use Tor, but it would also be useful to support SSL connections so that wallets could connect over HTTPS.
Is it (BTC) though (the best settlement layer)?
https://image.nostr.build/861a8fe4ab2efb2cf8779faeb1ba1c0f8e3f81dc25cef4730556d1c0a7277999.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HNLEBMlXMAATS8_.jpg
https://image.nostr.build/057458ae04bc11c2e7fa54b0c8d4d6c23375ecfcc4267493ea8926358d963394.jpg
I don't really know what that is at all. But I'll be looking into it.. appreciate it