Last Notes
"most people" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here:
> "you can get all the zap events on lightning and just rebuild a chain, since most people just re-circulate those zaps back into nostr"
(I love your work on all this, and I'm trying to be neutral-ish as we all move to the best solutions. I'm just pointing out that I find this argument a bit weak)
I don't think the issue has ever been about "seeing the balance", or about watching the public zaps going around within Nostr. As you quite rightly said, zaps are about being transparent about the fact that person A zapped person B an amount X
The privacy challenge arises when people try to swap in and out of Nostr, that's where the tracking fears start. Following the money within Nostr was never the issue; the issue arises when try to take the money out of Nostr, like using your on-chain Nostr zaps to make a non-Nostr payment
Honestly I'd just forget about this whole thing and move forward.
On-chain zaps is one of those mad scientist "they never asked whether they SHOULD, only whether they COULD" things, like that thing where they grafted a human ear onto a mouse.
It's a stunt, a fad. Lightning was always better for this and always will be.
Maybe we should rename the on-chain wallet to "Social Wallet".. In that way, everybody knows funds here can be seen and tracked by zaps. Use to have social fun not anything else. Drain it frequently in a private way, or just send it forward to other nostr creators.
Yeah that might be good to have, just as a reminder you zapped it.
What if we had a count of the number of zaps, not the amount? Hide the amount, but show a zap happened? Partially privacy respecting.
Not yet, but we do support Payment targets that does include most other chains and even regular bank accounts / venmo / cashapp / etc.
They are not zaps though. We don't generate a Zap event on Nostr when that happens.
I like how on amethyst it puts @nprofile…xll9 in the bottom 0.1% on the graph...
https://blossom.primal.net/fc5589983805ceda4d876f15ff89b76dc7e34d9462fc831b2de8fa5b099d84d8.jpg @nprofile…vhl6
#naddr1qq…rz3a
Silent Payments only hide the full balance. But people will still be able to collect all silent payments with a zap event and merge that into your "balance" in a similar way they do it with lightning right now.
Surprised @nprofile…pt5w hasn't put this in amethyst already
It won't.. there might be a local cache to keep you happy and see the little zap icon, but nobody else will see it.
In the sender app, will it still look exactly the same as if the zap was sent? I would prefer for it to look the same. Part of the fun of sending zaps is seeing them actually show up. Even if this is just for me, because only I know about it.
I think the problem is that people can see the balance if people dont move those UTXOs. Because in the end, you can get all the zap events on lightning and just rebuild a chain, since most people just re-circulate those zaps back into nostr. It's not a verifiable chain, but it is a chain nonetheless.
Yep, that's the way to do it. Because in the end, anyone can lock any coin to your nsec from anywhere. You can't do anything about it.
Conventional social media has all kinds of "tip jar" Zap-like functionality, and people don't go crazy 🤯 over it. Look at any Youtube or Twitch stream, users want to be seen sending $1 or whatever to their favorite creator.
We should lean into Zaps, because we're taking this behavior but supercharging it by (a) making it possible to send sub $1 amounts that legacy platforms can't and (b) allowing anyone on planet Earth to participate in a permissionless way. These two factors are HUGE.
there are a MILLION other options if you don't want public zaps. Just put out a lightning address and someone can send it directly. put out your BTC address, plenty of people still do that. Recurring subscription payments via Patreon-like functions, I'm sure somebody is working on that.
The problem with public key cryptography is that anyone can lock money, in any chain, to your nsec. It doesnt even matter which curve we use as Nostr. Anyone can always send you any token or coin from any chain. There is not going to be any future where that doesn't happen. And in many cases, the sender can actually proove that you are the only one in control of those funds, like it or not.
Which means that you can't disallow people from sending you money in your key in the same way that you cannot block say Iran from dusting your UTXOs with tained coins that you are forbiden to have a relationship with.
Anon Zaps allow a npub to support a creator without turning themselves into a target
Remember that
Still don't understand what's the new kind of zap ⚡😅
I guess I'll know when it gets mainstream
I won't zap anyone that disables public zaps. I want my zaps to be shown publicly. If they hide the zaps they don't deserve my zaps.
On-chain zaps made me rethink about the main reason we do **zaps** in the first place.
Zaps are supposed to be for the social fun. Its purpose is to be seen, to be public. "Private zaps" make little sense because they are just regular transactions, on-chain or not. Nobody can have any social fun with them.
The goal of the "Zap" (on-chain or not) is to publicly show your fiancial support to the creator to everybody else. Now, if the fun is not there anymore or you are scared about it, you should not even try to participate in the zap economy. There are other signals you can send to have fun online, including regular transactions (the old tip jar, payment targets, etc).
For the on-chain zaps future, we need to keep reminding ourselves that feature only works if we are using it correctly: to have **social fun**. It's not a regular wallet. It's a source of fun, pride and real signals that just so happens to use on-chain money. There are multiple ways to code it, with Silent Payments and all, but the purpose is to have fun with others. It is to be public.
So, I fully support this initiative. And Amethyst will support removing anything Zap in such a way that you can just do regular private transactions if you want. You cannot control what others do, but your side will be configurable.
#nevent1q…vzau
Those are client handlers. I'm trying to implement some. We'll see, if they work, in a minute.
Can you reset your Index relay list and Search relay list? I wonder if we are not finding the relay setup of those users. Since those lists are private to you, I cannot test it here :(
yep, good option to have.
Agree. I don't know.. I am starting to think there is a cabal that likes to take legitimate concerns and dial them up to 11 to scare everybody from working on simpler solutions for use cases whose legitimate concerns are not applicable or are minimized. Nuanced solutions die from experts not accepting user-aware tradeoffs.
Most common cliche on this is experts forcing cold-storage solutions for hot wallets, scaring and shaming people using less secure solutions.
is there something in the nip so we can get QR codes and calls to wallets?
I noticed that this morning. It had been working up to today. I've also been having trouble getting things to load in general on satellite.earth. I've also tagged @nprofile…csdq about it. I'm starting to wonder if he's abandoned it...
I aggregate the profile addresses with the payto addresses and render them all as payment targets.
https://git.imwald.eu/silberengel/jumble
I'm currently working on it, tho. To remove the zaps.
BTW, your profile picture is not available in the url you posted anymore (satellite's blossom server)
I might need to get my claude to walk through your client to make sure we are fully interoperable if people remove zaps from Amethyst and add the payment targets button. Where is the code again?
Right? I earn my sats outside of the nostrverse
My bad (@npub1gcxzte5zlkncx26j68ez60fzkvtkm9e0vrwdcvsjakxf9mu9qewqlfnj5z) it was shipped.. but I didn't add you to the list :(
Veremos el resultado en poco tiempo ⏱️.
Working through it right now.. Usually we just check your own Index and Search relay lists to download these things, but maybe we need to fall back to other relays when those dont work or if the user you want to see has a completely broken outbox setup and their posts are not in the relays they are listing.
This is my same and only complaint, @nprofile…vhl6. Consistency in loading folks pfps, etc. I'm in the same boat as Source, mostly normie.
The standard is that only see my replies and notes. Nothing else.
First have to visit the profiles of someone to see his notes appear in my notefold or timeline.
Additionally whatever wisp was doing to stop bots was working really well
Amethyst: Sucking the least since 2023.
#nevent1q…epnw
Hum... Are none of them loading or just specific people?
Is there a public api for Swaps that users can just pick a provider and they all follow the same specs?
Yeah, it moves. I've set the dust limit at 10k sats, to try to avoid that and not have the payment eaten by fees.
yeah.. I have to still navigate the shit show of NIP-29 implementations
Amethyst is amazing, but nowadays, the sidebar has been overwhelming me, there are just too many options 🤯😂 for me is like having 3 apps in to 1 or something like that.
One wisp feature I miss is the color and theme settings, apart from the fast load of profile pics and names.
Good job anyway 🙏
You sound like you're taking it personally. Do more. GM.
